Have any questions or things to comment on? Jump over to the ,,forum.

I discuss:

• Some expressions we might use to summarise the year we just had
• Accepting that motivation changes
• ,,Aux4Coins des Arts YouTube channel
• Buying more art than ever before
• Putting projects on hold and finding a new focus
• Shadowing and reading out loud
• ,,Tim Ferriss Show Podcast, ,,Dax Shepherd's,, Podcast (Armchair Expert)_ and ,,Brene Brown's Podcast - Unlocking Us

Expressions I discuss at the start

Kick-off - start something

look back on - look at something in a reviewing way

Make a fresh start - To take the opportunity to begin something again

Put (something) behind - stop thinking about something unpleasant

Turn over a new leaf - try something new

Get the ball rolling - to start something happening. If you roll a ball, it gathers momentum so that it keeps going.

Don’t bite off more than you can chew - Don’t try to do more than you are able. If you take too big a bite of food, you will have trouble trying to swallow it

Transcript

Have any questions or things to comment on? Jump over to the forum.

I discuss:

• My backstory and how I came to find the video
• Key vocabulary & a tiny bit of grammar!
• What is a multipotentialite?
• Some interesting points and quotes from the video
• 3 superpowers of being a multipotentialite
• What can you do to manage your life when you are one?

If you want to add your thoughts to the discussion forum jump over to the ,,forum

The video:

Vocabulary

dive into something - do something with lots of passion and interest

something keeps you up at night - something stops you from sleeping

figure out (phrasal verb) - to find a solution for something

come up with something (phrasal verb) - arrive at a solution especially when pressured or challenged.

take on something - to begin to have or to do something

to be scattered - to be unfocused or disorganised

innocuous, question - not harmful or offensive

to pivot - to change directions (usually used to describe career changes)

out of the box thinker - to think of things from a different or new perspective

tackle something - to find a solution or do it with passion and gusto

Links

,,Puttylike - Emilie Wapnick

Transcript

Discussion questions

How could being a multipotentialite be an advantage to a team or project?

How could it be seen as a disadvantage and how could you overcome this?

Do you think the best teams make people who are specialised teamed up with someone who is a multipotentialite?

If you want to add your thoughts to the discussion forum jump over to the ,,forum

Interactive video lesson

Links

,,Keith Haring Foundation

,,Keith Haring and Jean-Michel Basquiat Crossing LINES NGV

Transcript

Discussion questions

Why do you think art is an important part of the culture of a given country?

Is graffiti art in your opinion? Why? Why not?

Expressions:

to get on top of something - to be organised with all your tasks

building bridges - to improve relationships with people

build connections -

shape community - to help form part of a community identity

to form an emotional bond/emotional connection to something - to feel connected to something

dual benefit / fill two needs with one deed

win-win situation - is one that is good for everyone who is involved

make money off something - to get money from something

Vocabulary:

drawcard, - a quality or feature that evokes interest or liking; an attraction.

passive, income - is when you continue to get paid after the work is done. In this context, it includes royalties from the artwork.

Projects

LineUp Urban Art - Project

Wallkanda App

Transcript

You'll hear me talk about vocabulary for giving opinions, describing things I'm inspired by, describing places and my travel experiences in the past.

In this podcast I’ll briefly describe some of these places and my experiences visiting them and some reasons why I liked them & what I am inspired by.

Landscapes/Gardens

1. Cranbourne Botanic Gardens, Australia
2. Oaxaca Ethnobotanical gardens, Mexico
3. High Line New York, United States
4. Kew Gardens, England
5. Chateau de Villandry

The additional garden I spoke about was the Cactus Country https://www.cactuscountry.com.au/

Buildings

1. Chateau de Chenonceau
2. Pena Palace, Portugal
3. Guggenheim, Bilbao
4. Sydney Opera House
5. Describe your ideal house

Transcript

Coming soon

This is based on a video I watched by Tony Fadell: The First Secret of Design is Noticing. I really liked a lot of what he said so I'm going to discuss some of the things he talked about in relation to being a good designer but also how you can take some of the things he discussed can also apply to your language learning.

In the Video Tony talks about three important things and I'm going to talk about them with some examples

1. Habits and how sometimes they stop us from noticing things
2. Looking broader
3. Thinking younger

7 expressions with notice:

can't help but notice - said when something is too obvious and very noticeable.

come to attention - to enter into someone's awareness - just noticed

sit up and take notice - to be aware and give your complete attention to something

take notice of something - make a conscious effort to be aware of something

at a moment's notice - with little time to prepare

at short notice - at the last minute

to look out for something - pay attention to something specific

Transcript

Next Episode: My top 5 favourite buildings & My top 5 favourite parks that I have visited and why I like them

Vocabulary

rolled on - used to indicate time moving on

selling out - when you lose your integrity or sense of self

to push someone to do something - to encourage them to do something

pave the way for someone - to prepare the way for someone so their path is easier

Follow in someone’s footsteps - to do the same things that another person has done before

take someone under their wing - you start to protect and take care of them

Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer - be nice to your enemies and stay alert so they don't have a negative impact on your life.

Keep a close eye on someone - you observe them carefully to make sure they are progressing as you want them to

Keep up to date with something - to keep informed about something

miss out on something - to miss an opportunity

bring someone or something to light - to point out issues or show something important

The ARTISTS

1. Keith Haring and Andy Warhol

2. Pablo Picasso and Diego Rivera

3. Agnes Varda & Street Artist & Photographer JR

Documentary: Faces, Places

4. ,The painter and the thief

,,Czech artist ,Barbora Kysilkova

,,The Documentary Trailer

5.,, Prince of Monaco - Prince Albert and the artist Alick Tipoti

6. ,,Stephen Wiltshire and Oliver Sacks.

Transcript

Today's episode comes from outside as I was a little sick of sitting in front of my computer.

The two tools I talked about in today's episode:

Readlang

Reverso Context

Transcript

Today I'm going to talk about:

1. Illustrators Celebrating Diversity particular an article I read on Deezeen.
2. Pride Month - the 21 Day Challenge 
3. Outings Project 
4. Comic Book Route in Brussels
5. The Artist - Christo

Vocabulary:

apathetic: showing or feeling no interest, enthusiasm, or concern.

solidarity: unity or agreement of feeling or action, especially among individuals with a common interest or mutual support within a group.

Expressions:

put yourself in someone's shoes - to take the place of someone else to try and understand a situation from their perspective

put something into the spotlight - To focus on or bring attention to someone or, something

bring something to light - To focus on or bring attention to someone or something

a picture tells a thousand words - a picture can tell us more about a situation just from the visual imagery

breakdown barriers - to improve understanding and communication between people who have different opinions]

bridge the gap - to connect two things or to make the difference between them smaller

Transcript

In today’s episode, I’m using a short video for today’s topic question: When is art design and when is design art?

I ask the question: does it really matter? I also share examples of artists, designers and design movements that 'blur the boundaries' between disciplines. 

You can find Vocabulary and Transcript below.

If you're enjoying the podcast, can I ask you to do me a big favour and leave a review, a written review on Apple Podcasts or on any podcast application you are using to listening to the podcast? This really helps me to grow the audience and for more content to come your way. I would be super grateful.

Vocabulary

blurring the boundaries - to be vaguer or less distinct. If you ,blur the boundaries between two things, you make it harder to tell them apart, categorise them, or differentiate them. This is the same as:

Blurring the lines - If you blur the lines between two things, you make it harder to tell them apart, categorise them, or differentiate them (same as above).

discipline - an area of study or subject eg. art, design, science, geography are all disciplines

to realise an artwork - make something such as a piece of artwork

superseded - to take the place of something else (in this case a different idea takes the place of another).

Bauhaus movement - a movement of design where design crosses over with fine art and focuses on mass production

to be pigeonholed or to pigeonhole someone - to unfairly describe (someone or something) as belonging to a particular group, having only a particular skill, etc. (Very often this is a negative way of categorising someone)

defy categorisation - to defy categorisation means you aspire not to be put into a specific category (you don't want to be pigeon-holed).

this day and age - at the present time

biomimicry - is the imitation of the elements of nature for the purpose of solving complex human design problems

Transcript

Discussion questions:

Do you think the line between disciplines is more blurry these days? Can you think of your own examples?

Do you think design needs 'crossing of boundaries' to make things more innovative?

Find an example of Biomimicry and summaries its features.

What do you think? I'm certain it does.

You can find Vocabulary and Transcript below as well as all links mentioned in this podcast at the bottom of this post and some discussion questions if you're an ESL teacher or if you just want some prompts to practice your writing.

If you're enjoying the podcast, can I ask you to do me a big favour and leave a review, a written review on Apple Podcasts or on any podcast application you are using to listening to the podcast? This really helps me to grow the audience and for more content to come your way. I would be super grateful.

Vocabulary

opens up your life/world - makes you more flexible in thinking

more scope - more opportunities

nowadays - at the present time, compared to the past

originality - the quality of being special of different

Transcript

Discussion questions:

In what ways does being bilingual make you more creative?

Are you more creative in your first language or in English?

What do you think the idiom - to speak the same language means?

Do you think that being bilingual changes how creative you are in your first language?

How flow brings our your full potential. I will read the article to you while also explaining some vocabulary and expressions. You can find it here:

You can find Vocabulary and Transcript below as well as all links mentioned in this podcast at the bottom of this post and some discussion questions if you're an ESL teacher or if you just want some prompts to practice your writing.

If you're enjoying the podcast, can I ask you to do me a big favour and leave a review, a written review on Apple Podcasts or on any podcast application you are using to listening to the podcast? This really helps to grow the audience and for more content to come your way - thank you.

Vocabulary

bring out - to make something appear. In this context, flow 'brings out' and shows the skills you already have

mitigate (v) - reduce the effect of something

surmountable (a) - something that is achievable

sink into the moment - to be in a state of flow with no distractions

convoluted (a) - extremely complex and difficult to follow

conducive (a) - making a certain situation or outcome likely or possible.

daunting (a) - difficult, intimidating or challenging

Somewhat (adv) - to a moderate extent or by a moderate amount

to stretch you - make you work harder and to make maximum use of your talents or abilities

Idioms and expressions that suggest you’re in a state of flow:

Getting into the zone

Knuckle down

Put your head down

Get stuck into something

Throw yourself into something

Put your heart and soul into something

Stick your nose into something

Go the extra mile - to do more than you expected

Transcript

Discussion questions

1. According to Herbert Benson, What are the four stages of flow?

2. Is your leisure time more precious than money?

3. Do you find it easy to eliminate distractions? Do you ever engage in fake flow? Explain why fake flow is bad.

4. What type of environment is conducive to finding your flow?

5. Write a sentence with 5 of the idioms or expressions that suggest being in a state of flow.

Reference

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20191216-how-flow-brings-out-your-full-potential

In today's episode, I'm talking about How art during the global pandemic has brought us closer together. This was inspired by an article I read on the UNESCO website:

Even during COVID-19, art ‘brings us closer together than ever’ – UN cultural agency

You can see an example of this togetherness above. Wetransfer is donating 30% of their advertising space to creatives they admire and causes they care about.

You can find Vocabulary and Transcript below as well as all links mentioned in this podcast at the bottom of this post and some discussion questions if you're an ESL teacher or if you just want some prompts to practice your writing.

If you're enjoying the podcast, can I ask you to do me a big favour and leave a review, a written review on Apple Podcasts or on any podcast application you are using to listening to the podcast? This really helps to grow the audience and for more content to come your way - thank you.

Vocabulary

tapping into creativity - use of imagination or original ideas especially in the creation of unique ideas

emphatically (a)- in a forceful way, without a doubt

relay (v)- to pass on a message

flagged (v)- to mark something for attention

plunging - (v) rapidly decreasing.

destabilising (v) - upset the stability of a system. To cause unrest or instability in something.

To take something for granted - to never think about something because you believe it will always be available or stay exactly the same.

to make a living off our work - To make money from work

bounce back (v) - to return quickly to a normal condition after a difficult situation or event

disposable income (n) - income remaining after deduction of taxes and social security charges, available to be spent or saved as one wishes.

in the zone (e) - if you are in the zone, you are happy or excited because you are doing something very skillfully and easily.

emphatically (a)- in a forceful way, without a doubt

timely - done or occurring at a favourable or useful time; opportune.

uplifting - morally or spiritually elevating; inspiring happiness or hope

creativity abounds - creativity is prevalent, exists in great numbers

impetus - something that makes a process or activity happen or happen more quickly

Twofold approach - twice as great or many

Transcript

Discussion Questions:

1. What do you think are some of the threats that artists are facing now and in the future because of Covid19?

2. In your opinion, what are some of the solutions artists can use to make sure people keep buying their work?

3. Who is it up to, to support artists and the arts during a time of uncertainty?

Can you match these phrasal verbs using the verb draw in its present (draw) past (drew) and part participle form (drawn)?

1. draw up

2. drew back

3. drew even

4. drew into

5. drawn out

6. drawn into

7. draw out

8. draw upon

a. I’m going to _________ a plan for us to follow.

b. After several hours playing poker he ___________.

c. As confinement becomes ___________ I start to become increasingly bored.

e. I’m going to _____________ my previous experience to find a solution.

f. Can we not let this meeting ____________ for too much longer? I need to have lunch.

g. He ___________ when the cat scowled.

h. The train ______ the station.

i. I never wanted to get ___________ this silly argument.

Answers:

a1, b3, c6, e8, f7,g2, h4, i6,

If you're enjoying the podcast, can I ask you to do me a big favour and leave a review, a written review on Apple Podcasts or on any podcast application you are using to listening to the podcast? This really helps to grow the audience and for more content to come your way - thank you.

Links:

How can you Support Artists :

https://en.unesco.org/themes/arts-and-artists

Wetransfer supporting artists

You can find Vocabulary and Transcript below as well as all links mentioned in this podcast.

If you're enjoying the podcast, can I ask you to do me a big favour and leave a review, a written review on Apple Podcasts or on any podcast application you are using to listening to the podcast? This really helps to grow the audience and for more content to come your way - thank you.

Vocabulary:

stop you in your tracks - to suddenly stop you on your way or make you stop moving

one mans trash is another man's treasure - what someone might think is trash, could be valuable to someone else

take something for granted - to never think about something because you believe it will always be available or stay exactly the same

to have something in your backyard - in the area where you live. Something this can refer to a neighbourhood or a country.

to stumble across something - to discover something by chance

to have a knack for something - means to do it well

stand the test of time - to last a long time or remains popular or strong

someone's cup of tea - to really like something

mark moments in time - mark significant moments in a time period

ephemeral nature - it is always changing

partake in something - join in something

defend their territory - defend a place that you have marked as your own

persistence - continue to do something despite being challenged

pay homage to something - we show our respect for something to do something to honour it

pay tribute to something - we show our respect or admiration for something

to have a song stuck in your head - to keep singing something over and over without stopping

To bring colour to your day - to bring happiness and joy to your day

aptly - appropriate or suitable

Episode 21 A Pecha Kucha Presentation - Why I like Street Art and Graffiti

Last Episode I talked about Pecha Kucha and a style of presentation with only images. So today I thought I'd do one. Obviously, if you’re listening to this Podcast you can still listen and it will still make sense but I recommend watching the video too as it will make a little more sense. See the video here which you can play at the same time as listening to the podcast.

Video:

Transcript:

Discussion Questions:

1. What would your top 5 tips for giving a good presentation be?

2. What are the advantages and disadvantages of a Pecha Kucha style presentation?

3. Make your own Pecha Kucha presentation on a topic of your choice.

If you're enjoying the podcast, can I ask you to do me a big favour and leave a review, a written review on Apple Podcasts or on any podcast application you are using to listening to the podcast? This really helps to grow the audience and for more content to come your way - thank you.

In today's episode, I'm talking about my top 5 Tips for Giving Good Presentations and How to do a Pecha Kucha style presentation. This was inspired by a question from Conversation Starters World.

You can find Vocabulary and Transcript below as well as all links mentioned in this podcast at the bottom of this post and some discussion questions if you're an ESL teacher or if you just want some prompts to practice your writing.

If you're enjoying the podcast, can I ask you to do me a big favour and leave a review, a written review on Apple Podcasts or on any podcast application you are using to listening to the podcast. This really helps to grow the audience and for more content to come your way - thank you.

Vocabulary

Pecha kucha - a style of presentation which is given using only images (originated in Japan)

to be succinct - to make it short and brief and straight to the point

streamline something - simple and quick so you can move through it more efficiently and effectively

to pull your weight - to do your fair share of work

anticipate -  to expect or predict something

play to your strengths - to do what your best at

stage presence - the ability to capture the attention of the audience

To let go of something - to stop worrying about it so much

Example transitional phrases:

For example instead of saying Um…

Say - now let's talk about

Let's move on to

Another important consideration

The next point we are going to cover

My next piece of advice’

Pecha Kutcha style transitional phrases:

The image shows

As you can see in the image

What I learnt here is

Imagine being in this person's shoes

What you can see in this image is ….

Discussion Questions:

1. What would your top 5 tips for giving a good presentation be?

2. What are the advantages and disadvantages of a Pecha Kucha style presentation?

3. If you have to give yourself one piece of advice to improve your presentations what would you say to yourself?

4. Can you figure out what these expressions and idioms mean which I found in some Pecha Kutcha presentations?

Do your homework.

Give the Greenlight. ...

You have the world at your fingertips. ...

The personal touch. ...

Go with the flow. ...

Get carried away. ...

Up your sleeve.

5. Listen to some Pecha Kutcha presentations at Pecha Kucha and make a list of 5 unknown expressions to find the meaning to.

Other Links

Pecha Kucha

How to make great presentations the Pecha Kucha Way

ToastMasters

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Watch the Video here:

Key video vocabulary and transcript below.

Vocabulary in the Video:

Anamorphic - Relating to producing different optical imaging effects or illusions. He created an anamorphic piece which means he painted several different buildings so that when the builds are viewed from far away or a vantage point it creates one big image. It’s an optical illusion that looks different from far away compared to close up.

unity - coming together as a whole. For example, all the buildings come together to create one image. The people also come together as a community.

Perceive something - verb to be aware of something or come to realise something in a different way.

Perception - noun - is the way you think about something, your ideas based on your experience and background.

neglected - suffering or lack of proper care

Isolated - far away from other places, buildings, or people; remote.

The key person of the project - the main person who allowed the project to happen

The project moved him - to emotionally affect someone so strongly.

Open a dialogue - start talking about a sensitive issue or to start talking about something

To relate to something - mean to feel connected to someone or something because you might share similar interests or experiences

To put yourself in someone’s shoes - to see something from their point of view

Discussion Questions:

1. What’s the difference between

Live from the garbage

Live in the garbage

2. What is the difference between

‘shining light on something’ and

‘bringing light to someone or something

3. If you want to see the real person maybe you should change your angle. What does this mean? Why did he say this?

4. Do you think the artist thought the finished product was more important or the journey? Why?

Other Links

el Seed Interview in French

Arts and Culture Panel Discussion

info@artyanglais.com Instagram

Facebook iTunes Spotify Transcript Images

Artists

Many artists existed in this time period and perhaps the most well known is Hokusai. I've included a list of some of the artists in the transcript notes but I want to focus on Hokusai in this episode. You could do a search on some of these in Google Arts and Culture to find out more.

Moronobu Hisikawa

Harunobu Suzuki

Shigemasa Kita

Utamaro Kitagawa

Toyokuni Utagawa

Utagawa Kunimasa

Eisen Keisai

Kunisada Utagawa

Chikanobu Youshu

Yoshitoshi Tsukioka

Resources

Google Arts and Culture

https://artsandculture.google.com/explore

https://www.adachi-hanga.com/ukiyo-e-en/quality/flow/index_en.html

https://artsandculture.google.com/story/mwXxZujHMzKwGw?hl=en

https://www.caumont-centredart.com/en/hokusai-hiroshige-utamaro-great-masters-japan

https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/art-asia/art-japan/edo-period/a/the-evolution-of-ukiyo-e-and-woodblock-prints

https://www.adachi-hanga.com/ukiyo-e-en/

https://www.nippon.com/en/views/b02306/modern-day-artisans-carry-on-the-ukiyo-e-tradition.html

Female Artists - Google Arts Exhibition

Uemura Shōe,n

Follow Arty Anglais Instagram

Facebook iTunes Spotify YouTube (Podcast Episodes) Vocabulary

paste-up - an image on paper stuck on to a wall outside or inside as a form or artistic expression

to bite off more than you can chew/bit off more than I could chew (past tense) - to do something that might be too hard or do too many things at once

came about - to happen, especially by chance

put something in a positive light - to look at the positives of a situation

making an impact - cause a change

existential - each person is completely responsible for their own actions to achieve a sense of self

pillar - a column supporting a bridge

paint a picture of something - a way of giving a detailed description of something to describe the situation

parity - the state or condition of being equal, especially as regards status or pay.

hung up on something - when you're concerned or really worried about something

putting a positive spin on it - seeing the positives in a situation that might be bad

palatable - acceptable

perk (noun) - a benefit that someone is entitled to or is an advantage to a job for example

you stand out - you are exceptionally good in comparison to others. You are more recognisable

made headlines - something that gets put in the news

kicked off - started e.g they 'kicked off' the search means - They started their search.

I came across - I found

paved the way - if someone's work 'paves the way', it means they make everyone else's work afterwards possible because someone else already tried and tested it allowing it to be possible.

working at the margins - working in a place where you haven't quite made a breakthrough yet.

get a break - obtain an opportunity (break into the art world)

Transcript 00:00:29 Hey everyone, welcome back to Episode 17 of the Arty Anglais Podcast. If this is your first time listening (to the podcast) my name is Tara, and I'm an Australian who is living in Montpellier which is in the south of France. So what I do here is I teach English and art together to kids and teenagers, but I also teach English (just English on it's own) to adults. I also make this podcast to provide a listening resource for people who are learning English who might also be interested in art and culture and creativity or just anyone who might be interested in the topics I'm interested in and what I have to say. I enjoy making this podcast because I spend a lot of time researching the topics that I'm interested in and while I'm researching I learn a lot of things, too! So for me, it's a win-win situation really. I win and you get to win also. Each episode I do you'll be able to find the transcript on our website at www.artyanglais.com/podcast Then you'll need to sign up as a free member of the site. It's free to be a member but you just need to sign up so you can access the transcripts.

00:02:01It has been a little while since you've heard from me on the Arty Anglais Podcast. I've been a little bit busy. I've working on lots of things behind the scenes for Arty Anglais. I've been organising things for my students and I've also been doing a short course in editorial illustration and last week I did my first street art paste-up which was fun. I was able to do it with one of my students. So if you live in Montpellier it's in the quartier méditerranée in Montpellier so see if you can find it.

00:02:36 So the last few weeks I think I bit off more than I could chew'. Which means I didn't have a lot of time to be able to do the podcast. When you say I bit off more than I could chew it means a lot of things were going on and maybe you were struggling to get everything done. So that was me! Running around like a crazy person trying to do too many things at once and I bit off more than I could chew. I started writing this episode for today quite a while ago so I'm happy to be finally sharing it with you. Hooray!

00:03:12 The reason this episode came about was that last year I started watching a series on Arte in French called Kreatur. In Episode 4 of the series, they discussed the visibility of women in art and it got me thinking a lot about how I feel about this. If you're interested, the link to the episode in french is in the transcript notes.

00:03:54 I wasn't surprised to hear some of the statistics about how represented women are in art! So I really wanted to share this with you today but I also want to try and put it in a positive light. So, the idiom to 'put something in a positive light' means to show it in a positive or favourable way. So the issue of gender inequality is something that might make you feel disheartened or upset, however, I wanted to try and tell the story in a positive way. I wanted to put the story into a positive light.

00:04:22 The more I thought about it, the more I realised that when you ask anyone to name three artists, almost always people will respond with men. For example Vincent Van gogh or Henri Matisse or Leonardo Da Vinci. Not always but very often. Or sometimes they will say more men than woman. Occasionally, artists like Frida Khalo or Bridget Riley are mentioned but female artists are mentioned less. I wanted to know what that is? It's not because there aren't any great female artists. I guess it's because they haven't been as celebrated or spoken about as much as their male equivalents. So my way of putting the situation in a positive light is to celebrate female artists and share some with you.

00:05:20 So in today's episode, I want to talk a little about this and also about female artists making an impact in their speciality. So today I'm going to talk a little bit about:

- An organisation who is promoting females in art called AWARE

- A little about the reality for females in the art world (the statistics)

- Some things that have been happening recently (so things that happened last year) to increase female artist exposure

- My list of 6 female artists to share with you that I think are great and I feel need to be found by other people

- Female artists in history and why they were underrepresented.

As I have been doing at the start of the last few episodes, I'm going to start with an artist statement from a street artist in Montpellier called Noon. See her facebook page here.

Noon is an artist who creates geometric and colourful graphics and shapes on different media: paper, concrete and wood. Very often she creates works for paste-ups on the walls in Montpellier. One of her beautiful pieces was actually commissioned by my hairdresser in Montpellier. So every time I go to the hairdressers I get to see her beautiful piece of artwork while I'm getting my hair done which is a bonus. She has also painted one of the pillars under a bridge near my house so I get to enjoy running past it during my daily jogging routine. I've also been using her colouring sheets with my students that she created in collaboration with Posca. She was able to create a colouring sheet with lots of patters that she normally draws Posca. Noon says this about her work. So I'm going to read out her artist statement in her words.

00:07:16

Once a student of the beaux-arts of Montpellier, I live and work between the Languedoc région and Oleron Island. I'm both a designer and illustrator and I create vibrant geometric painting experiments with different media – paper, walls and wood- from which I craft small-scale pièces, collages and murals. Nonetheless, drawing remains the cornerstone of my expression. It is an existential necessity, an imperative, that allows me to convey the perspective, from my studio to the streets. My compositions develop a wealth of details, channelling the decorative arts, tribal influences, and my spiritual connection with all things mineral, aquatic and botanical. In parallel, I work alongside institutions and brands such as Sea Shepherd, learn and skate, NTR, Keep a breast, Metroplastique, Quechua, Posca and many others.

Thank you, Noon for sharing your work with us. It is certainly something very beautiful and something I really enjoy to see in the streets of Montpellier to discover in the streets of montpellier. Certainly, I enjoy discovering your new pieces when they appear in the streets of Montpellier.

The statistics

00:09:21 Okay, so let's start by talking a little bit about the statistics when it comes to women in art. So, Did you know that on average 30% of artists represented by commercial galleries in the U.S are women? In Australia, it's about 40%, in China 25% in Hong Kong 22% and in Germany less than 20%. In 2017, just 22 percent of solo shows presented by London’s major non-commercial galleries starred female artists.

I think for me, I think that really paints a picture. To paint a picture of something means to give you an impression of the reality of the situation. So these statistics (for me) help to paint a picture of the situation. Gender inequality exists in the art world and in the world in general but obviously today we are focusing on art. The truth is, in my opinion, that women have never been treated equally in the art world, and today they remain dramatically underrepresented and undervalued in museums, galleries, and in auction houses.

00:10:45 I found a few quotes from different art websites. The website Artsy says - Women working across arts professions make almost $20,000 less per year than men. More than $196.6 billion has been spent on art at auction between 2008 and the first half of 2019. But of this amount, only $4 billion was made by a woman —around 2%. It's minimal and in my opinion it's just not enough (artnet News).

Do you remember the Banksy stunt in 2018? One of his artworks slipped through its frame and shredded itself just after it had been purchased at auction for £860,000 (this came to £1.04m with fees). Well not long before this Jenny Saville’s artwork entitled Propped (1992) sold for £8.25m (or £9.5m with fees) which is almost another 9m on top of what Banksy sold for. This was sold for double its high estimate–to become the most expensive work by a living female artist at auction. However, because of what happened with the Banksy artwork hardly anyone spoke about it! For me, that is just incredible! The fact that this is. still happening in. 2019-2020 is incredible.

00:12:04 In the top 20 most popular exhibitions around the world in 2018, only one was headlined by a female artist: Joana Vasconcelos with her exhibition 'I’m Your Mirror' at the Guggenheim museum in Bilbao (The Art Newspaper). She's a Portuguese artist that I'm going to share with you a little bit later on.

00:12:55 The most interesting statistic I took from the Arte Documentary was that as of 2019, Jane Campion is the only female director to have ever won a Palm d'Or at the Cannes Film Festival. On the Arte documentary, they also speak about the fact that females are more numerous in art and music schools in France and Germany but they are less represented in galleries than men once they finally finish art school.

00:13:32 In Australia last year the ABC wrote an article which was entitled - Gender representation in Australian Contemporary Art Sector Reaches parity, but Major Galleries Still Lagging. So parity means to reach equality. A report called the Countess Report, revealed women have reached equity across most of the sector for the first time in history in Australia. However, the article talked about how they are still underrepresented in commercial galleries. The first major institution in Australia to commit to change is the National Gallery of Australia (NGA). What they did was they conducted a gender count across their collection and realised that artwork by women made up only a quarter of the Australian collection. So I guess for me that is a positive move in the right direction that they have realised and are moving to change it which is a good thing. I don't want to get to hung up on the negatives because we know it exists. Rather than be hung up on the negatives let's talk a little about what positives with female representation in art. What's happening that's positive in this inequality?

The organisation AWARE

00:15:09 One organisation that is doing something about it is AWARE which stands for: Archives of Women Artists, Research and Exhibitions and through its work they have been able to demonstrate that female artists are under-represented, if not completely absent, in art books, exhibitions and museum collections.

What they are doing is they are shedding light on inequality and doing something about it. When you shed light on something you are helping to explain the situation. AWARE is shedding light on the inequality that exists between male and female artists.

00:15:56 AWARE is a non-profit organisation, and it was co-founded in 2014 by Camille Morineau. She's an art historian and specialist in the history of women artists. AWARE's goal is the creation and indexation and distribution of information on women artists from the 20th century. In partnership with universities and museums, AWARE organises things like round table discussions, symposiums and study days in France and abroad to discuss some of these issues and some of these artists. They also have prizes for emerging artist and a confirmed artist each year. They also organise museum visits to discover women artists and their art. You can find more information about what they do on their website you can also see videos of Camille speaking. I've been watching a few of her videos when she speaks on YouTube in both French and English and I find her to be extremely passionate about what she does so if it's something you're passionate about I recommend looking at what she. has to say. I've shared a video I found where she talks about a personal anecdote while she was at the Tate modern. So its a very interesting video if you're passionate about this subject.

Video

What happened last year that made me start thinking more about inequality in Art?

00:17:35 At the beginning of last year, I read an article in Grafitti Art Magazine about the women who create Urban Art and the article was entitled ' Where are the Women? In the second paragraph, I nervously laughed at this fact - 5% of artists in the modern section of the Metropolitan Museum in New York are women but 85% of the artworks represent female nudes. So in general females are more often the subject rather than the creators themselves.

00:18:22 One of the artists in the article Koralie who is a female street artist explains that 'it's almost a perk (or something good) to be a woman in street art because you standout. This article introduced me to more female street artists that I knew I should start following. I should start supporting more females artists in street art. Particularly because street art is something I'm interested in and I follow. Now, I instantly recognise their work and I follow a lot about what they are doing regularly in magazines, websites and Instagram of course. In this article (in Graffiti Magazine), I liked the positive way 'women in art were represented. Rather than focusing on inequality, they shared with us the women who are producing work. This is what I think (for me) is more important. To acknowledge (well) that a gender gap might exist however we should be praising and supporting the female artists we know. We should be putting a positive spin on a negative situation. The idiom putting a positive spin on something means to report or relay information to someone else in a way that makes their interpretation or understanding of it more palatable, acceptable, or favourable.

00:19:58 Last year the National Museum for Women in the Arts did exactly that. They put a positive spin on the gender gap. Last year the National Museum for Women in the Arts in Washington, DC made headlines when it kicked off its #5womenartists social media campaign. What they did was they asked people to name five female artists in order to inspire, support and discuss exhibitions from more than 1000 galleries, museums and cultural institutions and that included places the Tate Modern in London and Florence’s Uffizi Gallery, which both launched shows in response to this hashtag last year. So if you follow the hashtag #5womenartists on instagram (or facebook) you'll be able to see the thousands of people that shared their 5 women artists who they thought were great. So in that same spirit of positivity and sharing, I have decided to share 5 female artists. (well actually I've made my list 6 because it was very hard to narrow down the list).

1 Swoon

00:21:16 She is a mixed media artist who specialises in life-size paste-up prints on brown kraft paper and paper cutouts of human figures. I recently saw some of her work at the Fluctuart Gallery in Paris which is a boat floating on the Seine and a few years ago I saw some of her work in New York. She exhibits all around the world and often her subjects have a very touching or interesting backstory. You learn a lot about her characters and the people she paints. Her artwork has a very deep connection with people so I think that's why I'm so interested in her work.

2 Leila Jeffreys

She is an Australian photographic and video artist who is inspired by nature and well most notably by birds. She began documenting birds by way of photographic portraiture in 2008. My absolute favourite exhibition was in 2012 of her wild cockatoo's birds. I often use her images for inspiration for my own paintings of Australian birds. So check her out. She takes some absolutely fantastic photos of birds. Very detailed.

3 Joana Vasconcelos

She is a Portuguese artist known for her large-scale installations and sculptures. My favourite of hers is one she completed in 2019 (I believe) at Jupiter Artland in Edinburgh Scotland. A colourfully decorated swimming pool decorated with tiles. You can see some of the pictures if you type that into google. As I mentioned she exhibited: I’m Your Mirror at the Guggenheim Bilbao in 2018 which featured a giant mask made from mirrors that you could walk up to and interact with.

4 Louise Bourgeois

Louise was a French-American artist who was well known for her large scale sculpture art. I was lucky enough to see the Sculpture called Maman which means mother in French and it's a sculpture of a large spider just outside the Guggenheim museum in Bilbao in Spain. You can stand underneath it, you can take photos from underneath it or all around it. It's quite a large scale sculpture. Very interesting.

5 Abbey Lossing

She is more I would say more of an illustrator, I guess. She based in Brooklyn in New York. She creates quirky and simple illustrations of people and scenes - things like people in the middle of a protest with signs. She has lots of diversity in her images, she uses really bright and dynamic colour palettes so I just love her work. I spend a lot of time looking at the work that she produces.

6 Lucy Sparrow

My sixth and final artist is Lucy Sparrow. She is an interesting artist that I came across recently in a magazine I think. She's a contemporary artist originating from Bath, England. She kind of works at this intersection of contemporary art and craft because she creates thousands of supermarket products and she crochets them and knits them. Then what she does is she displays them as they would be displayed in a supermarket. So they're absolutely giant exhibitions that you can walk through and see all these crotcheted and knitted products. Really interesting stuff.

Now that I have told you my list, I would really love it if you could make your own list and share it with me. You can come and tag me on Instagram, share you 5 or 6 female artists with me.

Galleries representing Woman

00:25:40 What else happened last year that made me become more interested in women in art? I was also happy to read an article in August about a gallery in Melbourne called Finkelstein Gallery. It's Australia’s only art space dedicated to contemporary women and female-identifying artists, which opened in an industrial basement in Prahranin Melbourne with eight local and two international artists. I didn't get an opportunity to see it when I was in Melbourne but hopefully next time I will be able to visit it and see some of the great female artists who are exhibiting there.

Also in November 2019, The Baltimore Museum of Art's new director announced that in 2020 the museum would show only art by women. All of these acts seem to show that society is starting to change. Women want to be valued for who they are as artists rather than trying to be equal to men. We want to be artists not women artists. Phaidon Editors also released a book last year - Great Women Artists (with the word women crossed out). Which is very clever I think because as I said, women artists are just artists. According to The New Yorker - real change is upon us and finally, great female artists are being recognised for the work they have done. I really hope this is true and I hope this continues to evolve in the years to come. I hope it continues to evolve this year.

00:27:33 Something else interesting that happened at the end of last year, I learned of THIS podcast and I helped to support it a podcast project-based her in France that will be released at some point this year entitled Et si Banksy etait une femme, ca changerait quoi? Meaning If Banksy was a woman, what would that change? This will explore the very subject of what I'm exploring now - visibility of females in art and more notably in street art so I'm looking forward to listening to that podcast soon. I will let you know when it's released.

Want to know a little bit of history to understand how far we have come?

00:28:16 So I think it's important, when we are talking about all this, when we are talking about the positivity, is to know a little bit about where we have come from to know how far we have come because for centuries, women were excluded from the records of art history and this was due to a number of factors. In my research I found thee factors to be the most important factors:

- art forms like textiles or “the decorative arts” were often labelled as craft and not “fine art.” so many women who were taking part and working hard in these art forms were not recognised as artists

- many women were also kept from pursuing a general education this really had an. impact on the number of women who were practising in artists.

- Finally, the men who dominated the art world often believed women to be inferior artists. 'Hans Hoffmann once said in a “compliment” to the abstract expressionist painter Lee Krasner “This is so good you wouldn’t know it was done by a woman.” So I guess that gives you an indication as to why women were so undervalued in the art world.

But then social shifts began to emerge at the beginning of the century and this developed further after World War I with the expanding global unrest. This meant more women had no choice but to enter the workforce and so they were then exposed to social, professional, and political jobs that were previously only for men. During this time in history, we saw artists like Helen Saunders and Jessica Dismorr really pushing to be the only women to make a mark on the Vorticist painting movement. Just quickly the Vorticist painting movement was a very short-lived movement inspired by cubism characterised by angled simplification and lines. I can see how this movement would be very fashionable in today's society particular in street art and graffiti.

French painter Francoise Gilot created a visual style and identity entirely her own despite being known mainly as Pablo Picasso’s lover and working in close proximity to major artists like Henri Matisse in the 1940s. Then in the 1960s there was also a surge of women teaching and studying in art schools in the United States and in Europe. These art schools became sites (as I can imagine) of feminist activity this was to encourage the representation of women in museums and galleries.

This movement of women in the arts fostered I guess more diverse artistic practice because they wanted to redefine what was possible in the studio and I think this really paved the way for many women artists practising today. Out of this era, we saw influential artists like Alma Thomas who was an African-American expressionist painter and art educator best known for her very colourful abstract paintings. She was recently admired by Michelle Obama when the First Lady chose two of her paintings to be exhibited in the White House. I really wonder if you would have the same attention to detail in the Whitehouse today.

00:32:35 These are questions that artists and historians continue to tackle today. Groups like the Guerrilla Girls, a collective of women artists and art professionals. They work really hard to fight discrimination and raise awareness of the issues that women face in the art world. and in the world in general. They do this through staging interventions and protests, wearing gorilla masks to take the focus away from their identities. They reframe the question “Why haven’t there been more great women artists in Western history?” asking instead “Why haven’t more women been considered great artists throughout Western history?” As artist and professor, Joan Semmel puts it: '...if there are no great celebrated women artists, that's because the powers that be have not been celebrating them, but not because they are not there.'

So in the spirit of this and becoming more aware, I read an article on the website Refinery recently wrote an article entitled 15 Of Our Favorite Contemporary Artists Get Real About Making It In The Art World. It is worth a read if you want to support the future of female presence in the art world.

The Tate

00:34:18 Women artists and curators face unique challenges, from the subjects they bring to light to the work they choose to present. As Tate Modern director Frances Morris has said, women have been discriminated against for centuries, and major institutions have typically failed to support the careers of women artists working who are working in the margins. When you're working in the margins or working at the margins it means your work is not considered typical. So it might be difficult to get a break or to be recognised by a gallery.

The Tate says that the number of women in the Tate collection is growing, for example, half the rooms in the Natale Bell Building are currently devoted to a sole female artist, but they acknowledge that work remains to be done to reach equality. For example, 78 per cent of the galleries represent more men than women, while only 5 per cent represents an equal number of male and female artists.

The next step for the Tate will be to bring more and more diverse voices into the gallery by seeking out women doing innovative work and those who were neglected by history. It will be interesting to see what happens at the TATE in the last few years. I guess that means also working with organisations like AWARE that I spoke about earlier.

In the spirit of this episode, I ask you to find and discover 5 female artists doing work you think is great and to share it with someone or share it with me on Instagram. I hope in the process you discover some talented artists who deserve to have their work known and shared.

I'll see you next time for another episode. Remember to share the podcast with your friends and family and I'd also love it if you could also put a review on iTunes. If you have any questions or want to make some suggestions for a podcast episode you can get in touch with me on the website at www.artyanglais.com I look forward to sharing another episode with you soon.I'll catch you soon for another episode.

Resources

http://www.streetheroinesfilm.com/

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-01/representation-female-artists-australia-gender-parity/11658234

https://www.sleek-mag.com/article/speaking-garments/

https://www.flavorwire.com/575161/underappreciated-women-art-pioneers-of-the-60s

https://www.tate.org.uk/art/tate-exchange/women-in-art

Intro

Hey guys, welcome to episode 16 of The Arty Anglais Podcast. The podcast where we talk about art, culture and society to help you learn English naturally. You'll hear me talk about interesting topics, English expressions and English grammar in a different way so you can learn English in context.

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Vocabulary

You'll find the interview Vocabulary along with the transcript here:

PDF document

CuldeSac links :

Comixology

Facebook page

Will Pleydon Art

Transcript

00:00:29 Hey everyone, welcome back to Episode 16 of the Arty Anglais Podcast. My name is Tara, and I'm an Australian living in Montpellier in the south of France. So I teach English and art together to kids and teenagers, and I also teach English to adults. I would describe myself as somebody who is a very curious and I'm a creative teacher and an artist myself and someone who loves being around artists and art. What I really enjoy about what I do is being able to bring these curiosities and fascinations with the creative world to all my students. For example, just the other day my heart just melted when one of my students went home and proudly reproduced the drawing that I helped her to create in the style of Kawai and she did this all while learning English. So to me, that is just so cool. She is able to do two things at the same time.

00:01:39 I love inspiring kids especially kids who love being creative. This same student who is just 6 has become very curious about the life and work of Frida Khalo because we did some work about Frida Khalo a few weeks ago so she seems to want to ask me questions about her and her life and all the things she did. And she does this at the start of every lesson now. I feel like, even if the work I do with them just plants a seed of curiosity about art, artists and English, that to me is the most important thing. Creativity is something I feel should be nurtured and that's why I do what I do. I very much believe that my role is to motivate the kids to want to learn and to be curious for the long term because that is what keeps them interested.

On that note, I sometimes share the work I do with kids on Instagram and Facebook. So if you're not already following me, come find me on Instagram or facebook @arty_anglais. I always have links in the show description so you'll be able to find that in the transcript notes.

00:02:58 Two weeks ago you heard me speak about an Australian comic: Culdesac in an interview with the author Andrew Shaw. Today you'll hear the perspective of the artist and visual storyteller Will Pleydon. Before you listen to the episode for your information, I have put together a PDF that you'll be able to download from the transcript with a link to find where you can buy the comic, a few sample images, vocabulary and expressions from today's episode. Just like in the previous episode. So to explain a little bit more of the expressions and the grammar. It's all in that PDF because in the interview I don't get an opportunity to talk much about the expressions.

00:03:48 As I said in the last episode I fell in love with the visual storytelling in this comic. Will is an extremely talented artist and I really appreciate the handmade aesthetic of his images. It's a style I'm really drawn to myself. You'll hear from Will about why he chooses to paint in this style. Personally, I'm a huge advocate and a big fan of hand drawings. I can appreciate digital art and the amazing skills of digital artists but there is just something about hand drawing that brings with it this really nice hand made aesthetic. When one draws by hand, much thought must go into the placement, the colour, the direction, and even length of a line that, once placed, becomes a permanent part of the drawing. While when drawing with a computer, a line can be placed, tested, and removed within a few clicks.

00:04:49 It is this quality of hand drawing that I have come to appreciate in many artists and look to in my own art when I'm urban sketching for example. It's this quality that I hope we never lose. It's nice to be able to have a contrast between digital and hand drawing. This is why I was really looking forward to speaking to Will today. His illustrations are painstakingly detailed and the action is well captured. As you heard in the last episode, (if you heard in the last episode) it took him nearly two years to complete the drawings for the comic Cul-de-sac. For example, in the comic, even the spraying blood and all the gory details were so well executed that I found myself constantly saying - wow - that must have taken him ages!!! I wanted to know in the interview where he got his patience from! How did he stay so motivated over such a long period of time? How on earth did he fit his day job as a teacher in with his life as an artist and juggling 7 kids? Every time I talk to a new artist, I find myself being inspired and reassured that being an artist is a life long process of learning and trying new things and finding ways to stay focused as an artist. So thank you very much Will for inspiring me as an artist too.

00:06:19 As I have been doing in the last few episodes I've shared an artist statement so today I'm going to share Will's artist statement and his work and he says:

I've been illustrating and painting for 25 years and in the last 10 years have produced several published works. Originally I trained as a fine artist (B.A Fine arts UWS, dip ED) and have been an art teacher in the New South Wales & VIC Education system for 20 years. I now teach part-time at the Flying Fruit Fly Circus School & Wodonga Middle Years College, where I educate young creative students in Visual Arts.

The Artist In Me' is my publishing brand, which I illustrate, design and produce premium children's colouring books & art products (tested on my own kids and drawing on my vast knowledge of what engages children). These are stocked in several zoos, museums and boutique stores around Australia. I also regularly produce commission work.

I have a passion and gift for creating engaging and entertaining children's and adult content - both in the classroom and through my publications. All of my work is produced traditionally using gouache, pencil and ink, in a variety of styles from traditional realism to cartoon & caricatures. I create all this from my home design studio in southern NSW where I live with my family.

00:07:57 So, you can find Will's work on Instagram and Facebook and on ArtStation he has a portfolio. As a teacher, I am sure that Will is inspiring many young people to be creative. Before the interview, he was telling me that both he and his students were doing Inktober so it's great to hear of an art teacher who is engaging his students in the art world outside of school. Check out his Instagram and you'll be able to see some of his Inktober challenges. As he said in his artist statement, he also makes colouring books which of course is very interesting to me and my students. I'll put a link to that in the show notes also.

00:08:44 As I mentioned in the last episode you can support Andrew and Will by buying a digital copy of the comic on Comixology. And It's only $3.99 American (so it's not very expensive). I highly recommend you go and buy it or have a look. In the process, you'll be supporting the work of these two clever, independent artists and creative people. So without further ado, let's hear from Will about his drawings in the Horror Anthology: Cul-de-Sac and a little bit more about the process he had with the author Andrew.

Interview

00:09:33

Tara: Thanks for joining us today Will it's really great to have you speak to me on the podcast. It was great to speak to Andrew last week and now I get to get your perspective on the making of Cul-de-sac. So can you start off by telling us a little bit about your history with comics? Did you read them when you're growing up or did you have some favourites or favourite characters or is it something that is relatively new to you?

Will: Well thank you for having me. Yes. Look, I grew up a comic fan in the 70s and 80s and into the big boom of the 90s that we had. I suppose in Australia we (you know) as a

a kid I used to get a lot of reimprints of the earlier comics when I was (you know) when I was little (you know) like a classic sort of DC and Marvel sort of superheroes. But dad used to buy me a few different ones. Like he'd give me 2000 AD and Judge Dredd and a few of those other sorts of British comics that were commentaries on the state of America and what was going on over there. And of course, in the '80s the fear of (you know) nuclear war all those kind of things. It sort of fed off of that so it was a pretty dystopian sort of line of comics. and that was...and that was fantastic, I mean that really sort of fed an alternative, an independent view into my head. I mean of course the Superheroes were always near and dear to me and I think you know growing up really being more of a DC kid (you know) reading (you know) Superman and Batman and those sort of iconic heroes and seeing them drawn (you know) by artists that were very much (you know) icons themselves (you know). The Curt's Swans and the John Buscema and people that were really steeped into getting the Anatomy right and coming from that illustrative sort of era of the way they did things in the 40s or 50s. It was very much an inspiration... (you know) and it's something that I link to drawing from life (you know). Like, you could go draw someone and that would look similar to those characters you know. It was good.

Tara: who was your favourite character... growing up?

Will: ah look it would have to be superman. It was someone that I just loved it was (you know) I (you know) when I was a kid it was with dad and I'd watch the old George Reeves 50s black-and-white sitting on television and in (you know) of course when I was little the ... the Christopher Reeve Superman came out on television at the movies. So it was sort of everything around me at the time. But you're definitely Superman was the one. And the one I find hardest to draw because it's very nerve-wracking. I get really nervous about drawing him. It's so much pressure

Tara: you want to do it justice?

00:12:36

Will: oh yeah you just think that's not how it should be let me try to give 50 more times yeah

Tara: Have you drawn Superman before?

Will: I have. I've drawn him a number of times but each time I cringe at it. I did one a few years ago of George Reeves and Phyllis Coates who played the characters in Superman, the 50's TV show and I think I did it four times before I was finally happy. I look at it now and I think oh no I've gotta do it again.

Tara: I think I've seen that on your Instagram. It looks good. I like that picture

Will: Yeah you might have. It's the one where he's holding before he flies or jumps out of a window or whatever it is that he does. It took a while. That's right it's in coloured pencil so it took a little bit longer than normal.

00:13:21

Tara: so is drawing and painting something that you've always been interested in as a kid? Did you study it or was it just something that you did as a hobby?

Will: Well I always drew as a little boy and I growing up and in school like (you know) I always... I was the kid who drew pictures (you know) in the classroom. But (you know) I guess we grew up in an age in the 80s. It was very rich in terms of material. Like I mean it was Star Wars and it was Superman, comic books there's all these different things flying at us. And (you know) for a kid like me who just enjoyed putting pencil to paper there was always plenty of influences that I could draw on. But, I guess it wasn't until I really got into high school and in my later years of high school I really started to, I suppose refine what I was doing. And but it's still all very much in comic-book style. It wasn't really until I was in year 12 (so I was about 18 at the time) and my art teacher at the time she said look (and you can't do this of

course now at schools) but she said in the early 90's, she said "look I'm gonna grab a few kids and we're gonna go away on Easter break to work on your major work". I said "oh that would be great (you know) So there was about 5 of us, 4 or 5 of us that went up to a country town and we stayed with her father for a week.

Tara: oh wow

00:14:48

Will: Her father was... yeah... he was a portrait artist. He only ever worked in pencil because he was colourblind. But that changed everything for me I can actually see someone doing it for real (you know) So I thought, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try, I'm gonna try to do this. I'm gonna try to be really good at this. I'm gonna try and take the next step with it. And look, I always wanted to draw comics and animation and those kinds of things but in Australia, in the early 90s it wasn't a great deal of...pre internet world... there wasn't a great deal of opportunity to reach out or find out the pathways for these things. But so I moved more into realism. I moved into trying to perfect or try to learn the ways of the old masters (you know) getting books out of libraries and trying to learn everything I could from everything, anything around me. And I just drew, I drew every night (you know) every night I'd have the drawing board on the floor and I'll be drawing this and trying to copy that photo. And oh that's wrong I'll fix that. And (you know) you're constantly working out the puzzle of what's next or how do I achieve that next standard or you know how do I you know tone, where do I have a line, (you know), How do I make it look like... there's... you can feel the back of that person's head... without seeing that back of that person. So it just became an ongoing challenge to best myself I guess.

00:16:09

And each work I could see you know it pass. And (you know) I'd sell works and that was encouraging but then you'd think 'Thank God' cuz I don't really want to see that piece of work again. I'm gonna get better each time! But, I enrolled into TAFE (Technical College) and did an Associate Diploma in fine art when I left school. And that was the best learning I ever did. I mean, we really did (you know) and 20-28 plus hours a week of full-time art just a lot learning everything from printmaking to objective drawing to life drawing. And you know nothing wakes you up on a Monday morning like having to draw someone naked in the room with you

Laughs

You've got Liberty! It's a... it was an interesting lifestyle and I loved it. I loved every minute of it. And I ate it all up (you know) and yeah yeah it was interesting.

00:17:00

Tara: I mean, it sounds like you learned a lot from making mistakes as well and learning how to draw from other people and that's very often what I tell my students... is that... it's (you know) you can copy something or you can look at something but you're not going to learn until you make the mistakes and you really look at what you're drawing and to understand the anatomy of how the arm looks and the proportions and... Was there another particular artist that you were interested in say Leonardo da Vinci or... ?

Will: look I mean I think I looked at a lot of those guys but uh.. it wasn't... there's not a lot of Leonardo DaVinci work you can really look to. I mean it's very limited to how much work he produced as an artist. I look ... (you know) learning how to strip it back and

understanding (you know) that it became more about observation than it was about

what I'm doing my mind. Because my mind was too wrapped around comic books you know every time I draw a person, they had you know massive pecs and biceps to crush steel with and (you know) and you think 'that's just not realistic.' And I guess, you know, I really grew to appreciate the art of Curt Swan his early Superman stuff that real, realistic you know. He wasn't rippled with muscle he was just bulky. But looking at classical artists, I was really... I was drawn more to artists that drew from reality a bit more. Like looking at people like when I first started I was looking at Fredrick Remington who did a lot of the American West at the time (oh not at that time but his time) and Charles Russell who lived a life as a cowboy and drew from reality and it was more gestural (his artwork). It wasn't ... and it wasn't super realistic but then I sort of evolved and looked look the things of that era (you know) in the 30s, 40s and 50s that I really loved. That's when I sort of honed in on Edward Hopper and Andrew Wyeth and they are still my favourites today. It's just something important about their artwork that keeps drawing me back to it. And I suppose that's ...that led to very much my interest in doing the comic books that we do today. So I did Tafe for two years and I walked out of there with a very large skillset and some excellent teachers

that were very encouraging and then I did University for two years but really only for the sole purpose of getting a teaching degree because I needed to earn money. If I wanted to sort of explore art more I needed to have an income to live and at least I could be close to art when I was teaching.

Tara: oh you can encourage lots of other children and students.

Will: And I really wanted to be able to pass on what I'd learn (you know) through those problems and like you said before you don't really do your greatest learning until

you make mistakes. You know you really have to... it's just part of that building up of the grid of the artist and I guess also just being able to push through and just say that's great that was there and now what's next.. and ...and just puzzle solving. It's interesting when you see kids doing it because ... little the kids tend to do it naturally they just go in and draw. It's when we get all the weekend to put all the blocks up and don't allow us to have free-flowing art as well as we should.

00:20:32

Tara: yeah we get a bit too hung up on making it look perfect yeah exactly

Will: Right? and we just let those genetics of (you know) traits come down to us where we just say "oh I can't draw that I can only draw stick figures and (you know) if I had a dollar for every time I had a student say that I wouldn't have to work.

Tara: So many people will say to me "I can't draw, I can't draw" and I'm very much of the belief that everyone can draw but we just need to have the time and the want to do it I think.

Will: I say to them but (you know) I couldn't pull apart a gearbox on a car but if I had a mechanic show me, I'd know all the working parts to make that engine operate properly. So art is the same thing. You just gotta learn the working parts to make it look convincing

and to make it look like it's working so to me it's really just (you know) what people are willing to put in, in terms of time and what they're open to learning. And being able to unload certain things as well. It really is to do with the mind.

Tara: when you say unlearning what sort of things do you mean?

Will: well just like I had to. I was sitting there drawing comic books which I practice for a hundred years and that became part of my subconscious ((you know). It became the parent of a pair I looked at art and sometimes you've got to strip that back and unlearn those habits that you've learned to then to lean forward again (you know) to be open to new ways of doing things. You know it's similar to what I experienced when I first started doing comic book work. It wasn't the realistic portrait stuff I trained myself for years to do. I had to think differently (you know) ..........(MISSING AUDIO) or even to even to make it fast in terms of production (you know) I couldn't spend a month on one panel (comic panel) because that wouldn't make it work it in terms of our production speed.

00:22:26

Tara: so speaking of the of unlearning and learning new things and working on things let's talk a little bit about your comic Cul-de-sac. One of the things that I'd been speaking to Andrew about was ... so it's set in the 1950s which..is... it sounds like it's a particular style and a particular era that you're drawn. Is this... has this come from being inspired by a particular artist or what is it about the 50s that you're so drawn to?

Will: I just like the suppose when you start to look at cinema and you look at the colour that was in film back then and that Technicolor sort of look and (you know) I love old movies I love watching Jimmy Stewart, Cary Grant and Humphrey Bogart and (you know) Lauren Bacall and all these actors at the time. They had a certain look about them, a certain character about them. Colour and design was so much to me (anyway this is just my opinion) but so much more prevalent back then. Like you could see you know the very Art Deco look in a lot of the way they had their cars and in their buildings. It was very simplistic, in some ways but complex' in others in terms of how they dressed. It was very conservative in some ways but in other ways, there was an underlying tension in the way they lived. I suppose I'm drawn to that era of that aesthetic of how they looked. I think it comes a lot for my mum and dad too. I mean they grew up in that era. My dad is 75 now and so he really was a product of the post-war world. So he grew up in the 50s... and those... and he used to you know repair cars and he was a panel beater so he would spray cars. So I was exposed at a young age of the vehicles that they drove and the pride that he would take in his ones and his cars. I guess it became an aesthetic I became very familiar with his brothers and the lifestyle is part of that and it was their values I guess and in the movies, they loved.

00:24:41

Tara: okay yeah I also really liked how ...I'm not... maybe this is something you're interested in but for me, I can see a lot of evolution of art where a lot more people are swaying towards digital art and for me it just has that really nice handmade care feel particularly in the comic. I really like that aesthetic. Is it something that you're more interested in - the handmade and the hand-drawn style?

Will: Well I am and I think that's partly only because of my own stupid lack of knowledge around digital media. You know I guess I could sit there and learn how to do it digitally (which I really respect that people do that, they're amazing. They just crank work out so quickly). I can sit down and spend a night doing that or I could pick up a brush and excel what I'm doing on the paper and I guess I'll I always choose the latter. I always go look... I can invest time in Photoshop or I could sit here and figure out what I need to for the next level of what I need to learn. So I guess for me it's you know even though I suppose the world is ( I think this world is swaying between the two eras of art now I do you know I think people they want to see handcrafted things a lot more. You that in cinema too. Like they want to see the puppets and the special effects a bit more. At the same time, they want the speed of the digital world so it's a bit of an interesting place that everyone's landed at the moment. But look, we...I guess I chose to do the watercolour effect because I wanted to perfect my knowledge (because colour didn't come easy to me at all). It was really a very hard thing for me to deal with and still sometimes is because I naturally lean towards black and white and especially painting was quite hard. But, I found gouache to be very handy and I like the thickness of it and that the brightness and boldness of the colour really jumps off the page and I really like the ability to do that with the colour.

Tara: there's a picture in the comic that I really love. It's great. It's in the first story and it's of the guy and he's looking at the bug and then he slaps the bug away and that bright colour is something that gouache really lends itself to.

00:27:11

Will: Absolutely. It's interesting. When I showed Andrew the originals (because we didn't, because we're so far apart) Andrew and I communicated weekly but it's always on messenger or on text on our phones. We really never had a chance (because we both work odd hours something. He works through the night sometimes and sometimes I'll be sending him pages while I'm working at my table through the night. But, I work the days. So our paths don't always cross. But when we finally got together and I pulled out some of the original artwork to show him what ... how big they were because they are you know double the size of a normal comic book size page. It was surprising for him to see the colour because the colour is actually bolder than it is in print. It's really... there's something about gouache it just tends to hold real value to it that's it just reacts with light. Especially when you layer it upon layer.

Tara: It's quite opaque isn't it. and

00:28:17

Will: Well that's the power of gouache it's an old designers medium that they used to use for posters and design work. It's an opaque watercolour. But it's less immediate than ink and watercolour in the sense that I can layer it down and loosen it up over time. It doesn't require me to have one brushstroke and it's down forever and that's it you know there's a little less pressure on it. You can build up you know bolder colours at the top and it's and there are a few artists at work in gouache today because of it like James Gurney and Alex Ross and um

Tara: one of the things that I really liked about the book was you really get a sense for what

the characters might be like and for example, that picture of the guy flicks away the bug. It's they're very animated and actually I was quite shocked when that guy turned out to be quite evil because at the start I was thinking oh there's this nice guy and he's looking after his roses. But then he flicks away and I just really love the action and what I was interested to know is where do you get your inspiration from? Do you take photos of people doing that action or how does it come about?

00:29:27

Will: um well I tried (you know like) I suppose coming from the portrait world I lived and

breathed like that (you know like). If I needed to someone to model something or something they would model for me and I'd take a photo and I'd work from that to create a portrait or whatever I was doing. But I suppose I kind of I wanted to push myself to the point where I didn't rely on that because it was gonna come to a point in comics when I was gonna I was gonna have to do something that I couldn't get a photo of. I needed to try and build my mind to the point where I could do those things and structure something without relying

heavily on photo references. I think that's where you tend to give it a bit more life. There's a bit more animation like you said or a bit more characteristics to the way they moved and more gesture. I think with you know doing a period piece like we did a lot of research went into it. Like I spent a lot of time finding the appropriate cars that were at the time and even the houses and internal houses, the carpets, the wallpapers but even things like I'd be on the phone to my dad and say "listen what did you used to mow the lawn back in those days, did you wear pants (but you know), what did you have on your roof, did you have like corrugated iron, did you have tiles and did everyone get up paint their houses like an America, was different? (You know) so there's a lot of points where I'd be ringing him and harassing him at night saying...he didn't understand what I was doing. He would say alright I'll tell you! But I had a couple of good references of people like that. I had a little old lady - and she was able to give me a different perspective from Melbourne because dad grew up in Sydney. She was able to tell me what it was like in Melbourne at that time as well. So there's a lot of that but I think when it comes down to creating that gestural look of the characters the only time I really photo reference things was if I needed to get the gesture of cloth 'coz (because) cloth is quite hard especially when you're bending. It always teaches you something new with cloth. So I'd put a business shirt on and take a photo of myself in that sort of pose.

Tara: good idea

Will: so I could get the right angle with it...or if I had to look at something like... the patterns on the wallpaper I'd reference some photos of old wallpaper (you know) the roses or the carpet or something.

Tara: yes there was one picture of in the book that reminded me so much of the wallpaper that I saw in a house in Ballarat. My great-grandpa used to live in Ballarat and when I saw that picture of the house with the wallpaper it reminded me so much of his house. As a kid it used to scare me to death. So it was really interesting the other thing ...I was... that I found really interesting was like because it's so gruesome and sometimes you get the blood spattering and the blood moving and things like that how do you model something like that or is it just from reading comics that you had become inspired from it?

00:32:41

Will: well I guess it's comics and cinema really. I mean you just ...and it's a and it's really learning not to go overboard. I mean you know the effectiveness of an Alfred Hitchcock film is sometimes what you don't see. For us when we did : CUL-DE-SAC sometimes it's a shadow on the wall or sometimes it's minimized. You know you don't have to see the actual cat get chewed up by the mower. The blood on the shirt is enough. The silhouette of the cat going to the pit is enough you know it wasn't really something that we had to show every single blade hitting the cat as the mowers going around.

Tara: yeah you can kind of your brain fills in the gaps ...

Will: exactly that's the power of storytelling and Andrew... the way Andrew writes he's

very ... he just he's so clever in how he does he's just very descriptive and he does you know 98% of the job for me because there will be parts where he'll just say look just go crazy on this and then I go crazy and he looks at me like I'm a weirdo.

Tara: It's funny that you say he did ninety eight percent of the work for me because his response was the exact opposite he says you did 90% of the I think he said 90% of the heavy lifting so it's interesting how both of you complement each other in the work that you do you appreciate each... or each other's skillset.

00:32:41

Will: With comic...I'm not a writer like. I mean I can... you know.... I like to be able to embellish the story. I'm a visual storyteller and I like to be able to say take what he's telling and put a visual twist to it and do some things with that. I can come up with the odd plot point but I'm not a writer. I suppose that's a craft I'm never ..... just like the digital art I'd rather sit at the table and draw that's the time I'd rather spend doing that. But when I hear... sometimes when I see with absolute trust some of the things that he puts out there... and I think I'm not sure how that's gonna work but I'm just gonna ... I'm just gonna draw the best I can and try to honour what he's put down on the paper. And it's been really a pleasure to see his work received so well. Like I mean I've sat next to him at conventions and people say "oh I love this and I love that" and you know it's really reaffirmed me because I think sometimes you don't see it when you're so sort of neck-deep in trying to draw something. You're at war with mixing the right colour and getting it working. It's not until I see some of the silence that he puts into a work that really works so well. I mean there's not a lot of writers I see that do the silences as well as Andrew does. I mean he doesn't add to it. Sometimes I'll say to him "don't you want to put more writing in it" and he goes "no I've said it all I 've said all I need to say with the action and the movement and he directs all of that. He'll say look the character walks this way there is light in a room this way and

Tara: sometimes less is more

Will: Yeah absolutely and my job is then trying to figure it out. How do I get a character moving around the house so that it makes sense so that the lights all coming in the same direction no matter what window they walk past or how do I get them to walk through one room to understand that, that connects to the next room. Did I see that from the hallway before? So you've gotta have a sort of visual landscape and my job is to take his script that he sends me and tried to thumbnail it out and work it out visually how that's going to work on a page and try to give it a cinematic sort of twist so we're not looking at talking heads all the way through the book. We're looking at different angles and different perspective. So to try and give it some more drama.

00:36:14

Tara: it's very clever and I liked how... it was really clever how the first story had no words in it because it was a silent story. It was very clever how the story unfolded and it was a very clever visual story but obviously, behind that are the words that get you to draw those pictures.

Will: yeah yeah and what I'm drawing and I suppose I hear those sounds (you know) those familiar sounds of the suburbs (you know) waking up and hearing the lawnmower going outside and cars go by maybe some kids playing and birds. You just think (you know) I can add in a quiet to be able to sit in a story it gives you time to hear those sounds, (you know). You can hear the bird on the fence before the cats chasing it (you know) like...you... it doesn't you know as he's scuffing around in the garage trying to get the mower out you know you can hear the wife yelling at him "I'm through her clean floors!" You know, it's the insensitivity of that guy (you know) when he's so wrapped up in these prize roses

00:37:21

Tara: Can you talk a little bit about that process with Andrew because when I spoke to him he talked about it being collaborative and I was really interested to know from your perspective

what he gave you so, for example, did he give you a script and then you drew

it out roughly or how did it work?

Will: I suppose when it goes back to where we began talking about the beginnings of Cul-de-sac and coming up with the concept of what we wanted and that whole idea of creating a sort of very much of 1950s horror story. So it's kind of like The Waltons or... (you know) a very

perfect sort of environment like Leave It to Beaver kind of environment in the Golden Book kinda (kind of) world meets Psycho (movie) you know you've got really disturbing things that happen from house to house that sometimes (and I think for me that's the scariest thing about some of those horror films) is that it's the person next door you know who you think is okay but he's not okay (you know) there's something twisted going on (you know) and that's that's that paranoia of the 50s as well. But when we started talking about that concept and coming up with we were just bouncing ideas very quickly because we both know that era very well in terms of horror. Looking back at the earlier sort of EC Comics and the pulp horror of having that idea that when you do evil or do unto someone evil there's a

comeuppance there's a just desserts you know like karma. It's very much back to you again. We love that idea that you know that's these characters in the street, as outlandish and Twilight Zone-ish as some of them were, there was always going to be a twist to them

somewhere in the ways, (you know), There's a big twist at the end really at the conclusion.

00:39:15

So we bounced ideas back and forward, to begin with just at the start talking about the

aesthetic of what we were talking about and then and I just said Andrew it would be great if we just go from house to house around... actually I think he said that house to house around the suburb and I said "that sounds awesome" so he went and just went crazy and created all of these short stories and the characters. He sent through the script to me - story by story - so I'd have a read through them and then I'd just take notes and I would play with the characters. Then I do some concept drawings of the characters and send him back to him and he'll go yeah I love that ... or I really thought of him more like this or him more like this" and I play with it again and we'd just bounce ideas back and forth with each other like that and he's very easy to work with. We have... we tend to be in-sync I suppose in terms of what we're thinking and what we're doing which has helped to flow the next one. We're working on a second book now and that's helped to build that very quickly and that just sort of came together because we were sitting at a comic-con together. We just come up with ideas. After I thumbnailed the book I give it back to Andrew and he approved it because he'll like this I love that he's never ever city isn't like the thumbnails which is awesome. Then I grab the thumbnails and I just start pencilling the pages out and then I start painting. I just sort of shoot ...you know I'll shoot him a quick photo on messenger because he's usually up at night working. His day job is a night job. I'd send him photos, shoot through at night of progress that we're doing and just to keep him in the loop which is encouraging for him too because it's it must be frustrating to hand a script over then eventually two years later you get a book back. It's a bit of a long process really that way but (you know) we worked hard on the book back and forward for that for time.

00:40:59

Tara: amazing that you stayed so motivated to keep doing the book and keep doing the pictures and so I'm really interested to know how you stayed motivated?

Will: I think it comes down to (you know) I like to go back to listen to a quote that I heard Brian Michael Bendis say once when he was (and he's a comic book writer that works now works for DC Comics) but he at the time I was listening to him speak and he said "it took me ten years to break into comics" he said (as a writer) "ten long years" and he goes "that's not a negative thing... because at night times I would have been writing comics anyway. And I thought that makes a lot of sense to me because if I wasn't doing Cul-de-sac I would have been drawing anyway. So, it gave me a focus every night to see it through the end and I was... you know I knew we were on to something really good. I mean I thought this is going to be you know... Andrew's story is fantastic. It's something that's unique and we're gonna do it in a unique traditional style that's you know that's not really done a lot today in today's not in Western comics. There are a few people doing it but it's you know it's something that we don't see a lot of only because of the time it takes you know. It doesn't make sense to run a company like that. But we at the time, we were independent creators so we thought we'd give it a shot. So, we're both pretty proud of how it had sort of turned out and we were happy with this the size of it. Then it kind of grew over time (you know) it started off as 22 pages and it ended up being 74.

00:42:37

Tara: so been looking at your Instagram as well and I can see lots of other different styles of art so you've got... I can see a mix of Australian animals, horror, comics, black-and-white

drawings, can you explain a little bit about all the different mediums that you use.

Will: yeah I'll try to explain myself

Tara: That's ok you can have a mix of interests

00:43:00

Will: I jump around a lot depending on what the need is. My wife is a ... she's a textile artist who used to be a graphic designer as well and so she works... primarily her imprint deals with Australian animals. So I create a lot of those things for her and just recently we've just done a whole range of colouring-in book books for children with wildlife of the world and horses and things like that. So you've probably seen a bit of that on there as well. So the animals, the Australian animals are really purely based around a product that she produces in notepads and you know teatowels and everything like that she does a beautiful job of. But a lot of that's for her... and you know people commission that kind of things too and they want a cockatoo today or a Gala or whatever they want. So, that's what those things are for. The other things the... I did a whole range of Hollywood sketchups as sort of a daily thing because when my kids were little they keep getting out of bed at night. So I'd sit in the hallway and... with my sketchbooks I'll do just a Hollywood character every night. I'd sit there and I'd draw Doris Day or you know Laurel and Hardy or whatever just to keep practicing so that's what things are. There is probably a big mix of you know the inktober stuff that I've done and comic-book stuff and portraits. It jumps around a lot because I just like to to do different topics and different mediums. And I suppose just trying to push the envelope. I'm (you know) ... I'm trying to teach myself how to cast and pour and do all that kind of stuff at that moment - just to try different things - to grow the tool belt I guess.

Tara: Just stay interested in what you're doing.

00:44:53

Will: yeah cuz I just like learning. I just like learning about the different facets like the ways you can produce something you know. Like I'd love... nothing gives me more pleasure to think of the ideas of what we can do with Cul-de-sac and second having some of those characters as statues or action figures or whatever we might do one day and have

those things on the table for sale as well. But and you know and I think the sculpting always feeds back into your art as well like if you're a 2d artist if you do some sculpting you build your understanding with drawing and vice-versa. You start to see things more rounded. You have to walk around... physically walk around things rather than look at it is it to the object.

Tara: one of the things that I've started doing recently... so I do urban sketching so I go around the streets and draw buildings and people and things like that and one of the things I've noticed is the more that I practice, the more that I look at the way that people move through a space or I look at buildings you notice patterns in certain buildings. You notice how to improve drawing something and (you know) I think you're right I think the more that you kind of transition between different subjects and observing and looking at people it really helps your artistic style develop and you develop skills I think.

Will: Absolutely, for sure.

Tara: what would you say is your preferred subject to paint?

00:46:20

Will: oh oh that's tough. Look I love I love anything that's got an interesting... in terms of subject matter or what I like to paint, it's... it just depends on on what I what kind of twist I like to do to things you know. Like if I'm if I'm taking something and making it look realistic from they can say realistic makeup or cartoony that's what gives it interest to me. I've enjoyed doing the sequel to Cul-de-sac because we've moved to a different era. So we're in the 60s now. It's hot rods, a bit of a jackets and all those kind of things (you know). Like Happy Days you know so it's gonna be a whole different era and a different era of horror movies and horror. That's what's... that's what sort of engaging me at the moment. That bright colour, almost like a neon colour more than a Technicolor. that you see in the 50s

00:47:15

Tara: yeah it's certainly very different. One of my favourite drawings that you've done actually is very topical at the moment. It's the picture of the Joker and I just think it's fantastic. It's so dark and it's very much your... it's very much in your style. But it's a really great example of the Joker. Do you do commissions for people?

Tara: I do I do, it's it's it's always an interesting juggle to try and fit it in... but it's... but I enjoy doing it. Because I just enjoy engaging with people and what they like. It's it's always you know going back to the portrait days it's sort of tricky when you're doing portraits. oh it's I'm steering away from doing portraits of people because it's just so it's just such an arduous process of what they see themselves as compared to what you see. You know like doing portraits for people like they want the double chin removed or they want something around my eyes or "surely I had more hair"

Tara: when you like yeah but it won't look like you if I change it.

Will: It's funny. I did a portrait for a lady once and she made that many changes it didn't look like her but she was convinced it looked like her and she was very happy.

Tara: As long as the...as long as the clients happy that is the main thing.

Will:I was like oh that's ok, I won't see it anymore and as long as you're happy to see it on the wall. But I enjoy doing that is Batman pieces of the villains because they are so rich in I supposed character and style and they are interesting.

Tara: thank you very much for our conversation today. It was excellent having a chat with an artist.

Will: My pleasure.

Tara: Was there anything else that you wanted to add that I have missed out on?

Will: No I don't think so I think you covered everything really well. We are in the process of Season 2 Cul-de-sac so that's going to be interesting there ... to see what you think of that when that comes out.

Tara: yeah when's that coming out?

Will: well soon as I get it done. I'm sort of. in the process of just starting to you know sketching and painting at the moment really. All the thumbnail process is done and the characters are created. So we're in the production point now. Yeah so it's you know it's got some pretty rich characters again. I think I would actually say that some of the characters that Andrews created in this one are almost stronger than some of the characters in the first one they do they really are improving and getting better each time.

00:49:47 Thanks for the interview Will, I certainly learnt a whole lot about your artwork and how you worked together with Andrew. To be honest, I feel inspired to make more time for my own art in my daily life too. Instead of watching TV and Netflix, I'm going to concentrate more on trying to perfect my art style. I also feel a little more inspired to just draw and make lots of mistakes! It sounds like this is how artists make breakthroughs and perfect their style.

So guys, The next few weeks I'll be in Australia visiting my family and spending Christmas with them. I'm looking forward to spending a few weeks at home. I'm sure I'll be able to find many inspiring things to share with you during my time there. Next fortnight I have an episode to share with you that I'm really proud of and that took a lot of careful thought and consideration. It's something I've been wanting to talk about for a while but I wanted to make sure I did it right and I did the subject justice. It's something that I've been thinking about a lot and wanting to tackle. It's a subject that I really wanted to tackle. Next episode I'm talking about women in art and their visibility. I explore how that is possibly changing. I'll also share some of my favourite female artists who are inspiring me. The list is long so I had to narrow it down for the next episode. I look forward to sharing that with you soon.

In the meantime, don't forget to follow us on Instagram. During my time in Australia, I am sure you'll be seeing some of the creative things that inspire me back home.

Until next time guys, I'll catch ya later.

CuldeSac links :

Comixology

Facebook page

Will Pleydon Art

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Intro

Hey guys, welcome to episode 15 of The Arty Anglais Podcast. A podcast where we talk about art, culture and society to help you learn English naturally. You'll hear me talk about interesting topics, English expressions and English grammar in a different way so you can learn English in context.

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Vocabulary

anecdotal evidence -

coming up - something that is planned to happen

my cup of tea -

tended -

alliance -

props -

versatile -

silk screening -

woodworking -

embarking -

diversion (or misalignment) -

serigraphs -

make a mockery -

You'll find the interview Vocabulary along with the transcript here:

PDF document

CuldeSac links :

Comixology

Facebook page

Will Pleydon Art

Transcript

00:00:31 Hey everyone, welcome back to Episode 15 of the Arty Anglais Podcast. My name is Tara, and I'm an Australian living in Montpellier in France. I teach English and art together to kids and teenagers, and I also teach English to adults. So I absolutely love everything to do with art. I am a very curious and creative teacher and I'm also an artist myself, so I love being able to bring these curiosities and fascinations with the creative world to all of my students. I'm also fascinated by the art of language learning! This is a recent fascination that I've just become more familiar with.

00:01:15 I just spoke to my nephew this morning who is a little over 2 and I was teaching him how to say bonjour. I think he could say better than me actually. Anyway, that was a lot of fun. It's really great actually because being able to speak to him on skype has changed as I've been here in France. At the start, he didn't really understand anything that I was saying and now he can actually speak to me and so I pay a lot of attention to how he learns how to speak. I find it really fascinating that he just copies everything you say. So when I say something to him I say it a few times before he finally copies what I say. Then usually he says it really well when he says it back to me. Yet just another piece of anecdotal evidence that shows, well how important listening is in language learning.

00:02:11 Since moving to France, something else I've become really interested in (apart from language learning) is comics and why they are so popular in France. So today I have a special episode. That I've put together to help me start learning a little bit more about comics and why they're so popular in France and also in Australia. So this will be the first in a series of

a few episodes that I have coming up all about comics. I interviewed Andrew Shaw, who is an Australian, independent comic author who wrote the graphic novel - Cul-de-Sac with visual imagery by Will Pleydon. Andrew will be in today's episode and I also interviewed Will who will be in a future episode.

Culdesac facebook page

00:02:59 So, Before you listen to this episode for your information, I have put together a PDF that you'll be able to download from the transcript with a link to find where you can buy the comic, a few sample images from the comic, vocabulary and expressions from today's episode and a full transcript of the interview between Andrew and me. So to explain a little bit of the expressions and the grammar it's all in that PDF because in the interview I don't get an opportunity to talk much about the expressions.

00:03:31 I had the pleasure of reading this graphic novel by Andrew and Will I was pleasantly surprised how much I loved it. It's a horror anthology comic which is not something I normally read. It's not normally my cup of tea. However, I fell in love with the visual storytelling in this comic. The illustrations by Will are detailed and really dynamic so they capture the action and the scenes in a very clever way. The scenes and historical settings for Cul-de-sac are so well researched that you can see all the things you might have expected to see in a house in the 1950s. Actually, there's one picture in the comic where Will has drawn the wallpaper and I'm pretty sure I saw a very similar wallpaper in a house in Ballarat when I was growing up obviously from the 1950s.

Here is a description found on Comixology about Cul-de-sac:

The 1950's. A different time. You could leave your front door unlocked, your children could play outside until dark without a care. Your neighbours all looked after each other. But, what went on in those houses when the doors closed? Did the kindly man who tended his roses have a dark secret? What about the young man who lived alone after the war? Or the lady with the strange lights spilling from her basement each night? The Cul de sac holds many secrets...

00:05:06 In this episode, I spoke with Andrew about his own personal story with comics and the process of making the comic with Will. You can support Andrew and Will by buying a digital copy of the comic on Comixology. It's only $3.99 American (so it's not very expensive) I highly recommend you go and buy it. Because in the process, you'll be supporting the work of these two clever Aussie guys. And you'll hear from Will in a future episode. So you'll get the perspective of the author and the artist.

00:05:48 Before we get into the interview today I'm going to share another artist statement from a collaborative art project between two artists I recently learned about called Canned. This duo creates many different sculptures and the series of art I was particularly drawn to was their series of can sculptures and crushed cans. If you have a look in the transcript notes for today's episode, you'll see what I mean if you have a look at the picture and you visit their website. or their Instagram page.

As promised, here is there artist statement:

The project "CANNED" comes from the alliance of two French artists,

Charlotte Parenteau-Denoël and Fabien Moreau (artist name "Mofart'z"). Mofart'z comes from the world of cinema. He is a decorator who also creates props. He is versatile in the field of art. He practices silk screening, woodworking, drawing, painting and sculpture. The other member of the duo - Charlotte Parenteau-Denoel studied art history and interior architecture before embarking on a journey with photography. In parallel with her photos, she also teaches sculpture. The common thread throughout their work is diversion (or misalignment). Their sources of inspiration are drawn from their personal experiences, from their childhood, but also from a major artistic movement of the 1960s: Pop Art. The initial intention of this project was to produce 32 models of different cans and to "box" different subjects, like the 32 serigraphs of the soup cans that make up the work of Andy Warhol entitled "Campbell's Soup Cans". Their common desire is to make a mockery of the symbols in a society that is full of over industrialisation and overconsumption.

00:07:49 Thank you Charlotte and Fabien for letting me share your work. They are currently exhibiting their work in several French galleries including Paris, Deauville, Nancy, Céret, Nice, Marseille and also abroad in Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands and Switzerland. So if you're in any of these places make sure you go and check out their work and have a look at what they are doing on their webpage and on their Instagram.

Now let's hear from Andrew all about his Horror Anthology: Cul-de-Sac.

Find the Vocabulary PDF here.

Interview

00:08:31

Tara: Andrew, Thank you for joining us today I'm so happy that you've joined me because well for me comics are not something that I've grown up with. So it's good to be able to ask somebody who has a bit of a history with comics. So can you tell us a little bit about your comic story and about whether you read them when you grew up?

Andrew: so when I was a kid in Melbourne, Australia I used to go to the newsagent and a milk bar all the time with my mum and we didn't have lots of money growing up but I would always look. There was always a rack of comic books and they're (you know) they're the covers are always made to catch the eye and so the brightly coloured superheroes jumping up and down. You know massive poses on the covers and I always would pick them up and have a look and I would bug mum for money. Every now and then I'd get one. The first one I ever got was a book called spider-man 2099 number three. The thing about that (you know) getting a book like that where you get one maybe every three or four months is that you never know the full story. So that was part 3 of 3 and an origin story for the character Spiderman and now I'm sure I got a Fantastic 4 or a Batman in there. It was probably (you know) 4 issues into a six-part story and even though my brain tried to fill in the gaps it was probably never as good as I what I could make out at that time. As I got older I got a full-time job and eventually just thought I'd (you know) go and check out a comic book shop and it just rekindled that love. The movie started to come out and, it just you know, I have a fairly large collection now that my wife made me put in a separate part of the house because it's taking over.

00:10:11

Tara: It's like a big cupboard for the comics in your house?

Andrew: oh I've actually got a... I used to do a lot of night shifts I've got like an extension of the house that's away from it. I used to sleep in it when I did night shift so the kids wouldn't wake me out and so I just put all my comics down there.

00:10:29

Tara: So you were saying you when you were little you would buy these comics from the shop did you ever find out what happened in those stories for the books that you bought?

Andrew: yeah so eventually I got because of I when I was a kid I pretty sure I either cut up (which people who actually read comics will be horrified to hear) but I think I cut up a lot of the books I had to stick into scrapbooks and pictures and things like that.

Tara: Oh no

Andrew: yeah but about six or seven years ago I actually went back and bought... actually, a friend of mine picked up number three spider-man 2099 number three for me. So I went and started collecting again and I read the Origin and....from what my six or seven-year-old brain thought it might be I just it probably wasn't as you know it was probably underwhelming in that regarding that my brain probably made it out to be this massive story but it was just a very singular origin like the original spiderman story.

Tara: So you kind of built-up the suspense for a bit of an anti-climax. Were comics very expensive back when you were a child compared to now?

Andrew: I honestly... I'm not sure I remember that (you know) I couldn't get them every week or I couldn't get one every time I saw them. I'm sure they were only (you know) they're a bit more expensive than they used to be. Definitely back then it would have been probably... the U.S. price probably would've been a dollar, maybe a dollar fifty on the cover and now we're looking at four to five dollars an issue. But then when you think about how much time and effort goes into them (like paying you know).... Some of them take a whole month to draw and they're writing and things like that so you're paying $4 for a 20 to 23-page comic (you know). You'd almost pay more in a way.

Tara: Yeah just so that the people that make it can be rewarded.

Andrew: yeah exactly

Tara: so can you tell me a little bit about the comic culture in Australia. Is there a big comic culture?

Andrew: Yeah it's actually... I'm not sure if the movies have helped but it's become a lot (you know) when I got back into it, it seemed like it was starting to pick up again and I didn't realise that there are a lot of local creators who were making their own comics. I just assumed it was (you know) as a lot of people do, people just think it's superheroes. But there's a massive independent comic culture where you get everything from people who get them properly professionally printed, to just people who hand draw in pen and photocopy their own little comics. It was just (you know) it opened up this whole new world for me. It was fantastic.

Tara: So when you started to understand that there were people, independent makers making comics, did that persuade you to start making your comic?

Andrew: yeah I am... I've always been interested in film as a kid and growing up and I always wanted to write a film. The scripting is very similar in the way you have to describe what's happening. There's only so much you can do in a panel though. You can't have someone in one panel walk from one side of the room to the other as you will movie but it's very similar in that you have to describe. It has to make sense so you can't have (you know) someone walk in with jeans on and then next scene they're wearing a suit. Everything has to line-up and (you know) you can't have him (you know) he has a fight and broke his left arm in this one and then in the next page he's got his right arm in a sling. You have to... everything needs to make sense. So..but it's very (you know) it's all (you know) you see that all of these days. Graphic novels and things like that have been picked up for film and it... I think because they're both visual mediums it really helps.

Tara: So it's almost like they've written out the script for them I guess, your comic.

Andrew: yeah I think there are people who think storyboarding for film is very similar to comics. It is and it isn't. Then if you look at something like the movie Sin City that Frank Miller and Robert Rodriguez made and they.. if you've read any of the books that Frank drew its effectively he storyboarded that film. They just use the comic as an actual script and visual aid to do it because it's very very similar... and (you know yeah) using the shadows and the noir feel of it. With comics you have to sort... your brain fills in the gaps. So it's (you know) someone running down the hallway into a different room and you can't show them. (You know) it takes up too much space. If you have them running all the way down the hallway and then in the mirror. So yeah, you might have a panel where they're running down the hallway and then the next panel where someone might say turn left here and then the next panel they're in the other room. You have to fill in the gaps with your own mind otherwise you'd have to (you know) if you drew every single thing that happened you would have to make a book that's a thousand pages long that would only be (you know) take up ten minutes of what a movie would.

00:15:26

Tara: So your comic is called cul-de-sac Can you explain firstly tell us what a cul-de-sac is?

Andrew: so a cul-de-sac is a small community (you know) here in Australia we have courts so it's a like a dead-end street but the houses all go around the road. A cul-de-sac is a bit more like a gated community so it's got a fence at the front but it's still only a very small group of houses. So it's (you know) somewhere where we sort of {set the book} ... I think writing the stories I think that they could have been set in any time period but we played on {the 1950's} Will who's the artist on the book, he has this...he loves the 50s and that's what era {we chose} and their aesthetic {like} wallpapers and things like that so we sort of we when we decided to do it in the 50s. It opened up (you know)... there's a couple of stories a story in there about a dad who's obsessed with the Cold War and there's a soldier who's come back from World War two and things like that. It's just... he spent hours upon hours researching cars, wallpaper and carpet patterns and furniture and things like that to get the inside of the houses to look authentic for the time period. I think it works for it was as much as it's about (you know) there's...at the time period it was the Cold War and things like that. A lot of people just came back from World War Two into the 50s.. and but it's also a period where everything was safer. You knew your neighbours and you know people had their doors unlocked most of the time and things like that and it was (just you know) we played on the aesthetic of you might know your neighbour but you don't know what happens when they shut the front door.

00:17:05 Tara: yeah I really liked how every story had their own character and kind of a different turn of events and so can you explain that a little bit. It's basically these characters and they're all set in the same cul-de-sac and they've all got these sort of dark stories. Have I got it right?

Andrew: Yeah, we moved from house to house with each different chapter and (you know) we made all the characters look as different as possible so that your first story opening is a man who's obsessed with his prize-winning roses. Then there's a man who collects antiques and things like that. We wanted it to be visually (you know) it all links up because the art style is the same but every chapter is different. In that, it's a totally different story but there are also different people in it. The thing I always loved about anthologies (and especially I think) horror lends itself very well to anthologies ... even if you don't like the first story if it's got seven stories you're going to like at least, really like, one of them.

Tara: I thought that was really clever, having different stories and different, completely different characters which were cool. So speaking of liking specific characters or not did you have a favourite character from the book from the comic?

00:18:20

Andrew: I loved the first story I think it opens really well I think when Will sent me the character designs for the man with the roses he really nailed it. (You know) this man who just has this obsession (and you can see it from the start) with you know he's smelling the roses and getting rid of the bugs. You can also you can feel that his wife is long-suffering (you know) the roses are more important than her. He just and the thing I love about it too is that I wrote it as a silent story so there's no actual dialogue in the story. Will's art style works perfectly through it. Everything is you know the facial expressions are exaggerated and the slapping of the bug away from the thing. The bug explodes in green and it (just you know) it's all bright and beautiful. It sort of, it takes you from the start with sunshine and beautiful flowers and animals to the end where it's very dark and it's storming. (You know) he was... When I used to work shift work when he was drawing the book he was messaging me. He said ah it's a full moon tonight. Then he spent two hours outside painting the moon through that night, so {in the comic} where there's a moon in the background, he drew it exactly as it was that night. He is amazingly, insanely talented.

Tara: yeah so can you tell me a little bit about that process that you had with Will so did you write the story first or how did it happen?

00:19:46

Andrew: A lot of it was collaborative because we worked together on a story in an anthology years ago called The Ballad of Danny Flash about a guitarist who's deaf and we just really clicked. We had similar interests in horror and the stuff that we really liked and you know similar age and we just sort of kept discussing doing another book together. The more we worked on it, the more... or the more we talked... the more we thought this would be perfect. An anthology where it shows off both our talents - for my writing and his beautiful art. (You know) we went with the horror theme and it was he had an idea for a story or I'd have an idea and I message him and I'd say what do you think of this and he would write back. (You know) there's a story in the middle which I won't spoil but it has certain creatures, people turning into creatures, and I'd already written he'd already.. I pitched that first as a different kind of animal. When he'd just finished a book he was doing that he said I don't want to draw those anymore. Can we make it these? It just worked just as well and you know the whole thing was collaborative. He.. but he did... I would say 90% of the heavy-lifting on the book. he did the cover he did the lettering he did the art he painted it. (You know) it was just I like to think that (you know) it was collaborative but I also... I would never... I think it's more him than me in a way. It's more his art.... we sell it at conventions sometimes and people will walk up and have a look and I'll talk to them and say "but you need to look through the book".. to try and sell it because I think his art sells the book.

Tara: It's certainly incredible. He has a very big, you can see he's got an amazing imagination and the execution of the pictures is absolutely on point like with the characters it's so amazing. Did you spend a lot of time with him when you were making it?

00:21:43

Andrew: Well it was funny because he would be up late at night working on the book and a lot of the time I would be on night shifts doing night shift work. So I'd be on a night shift at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning and I'd get a text message or an email from him with rough art or (you know) a character design and things like that. So it worked really well at that time that we could collaborate.

Tara: Sounds like he never went to sleep. He was always working on it!

Andrew: I know I think he's got seven kids as well.

Tara: oh my gosh. So how long did it take to make the comic?

Andrew: So the whole thing took about three years and I think it took him about two years to paint it because he used a technique and I can never... it's gouache. I always get it wrong and whenever we are at conventions and they're asking about the art I always just usually have Will next me like I will [Laughter]. It's a thick watercolour technique and it just... I think if I'm correct... and it just... So he would paint layers and there's it just took a little bit because you have to wait for the layer to dry before he can paint over the top. So, but he pencils it all out first and so it's just... You know what? I would rather he took that long to make the book than if he took (you know) three months and everything was rough and it didn't, it just doesn't have the same feel to it.

Tara: yeah it certainly has a very finished look to it and it really lends itself to that time period in Australia as well. I think it really compliments that sort of style and (you know) back in those days they were doing like really flowy drawings and things in very similar style. So I've got some pictures that my great-grandma was doing in the nineteen would have been probably earlier the 1930s maybe 1950s but they're very similar they've got a very similar feel to them. So when I saw the comic for the first time it just reminded me of my great-grandma's drawings. It was really cool.

Andrew: Oh cool. There's a page where there's a blue Volkswagen in the driveway of a house, yeah and without even thinking it I showed the book to my mom and she said oh that's the car I had when I was a teenager and so Will gave her the page from that one.

Tara: so it appeals to a lot of different people I guess.

Andrew: yeah yeah

Tara: So the comic, the genre of the comic is horror is that right yeah so that's not obviously everyone's cup of tea so could you explain who your audience is? Who are the people when you say sell it at a convention are more interested in in your comic?

Andrew: it's usually people who like... we sell it to people who like horror. We found that it would be ... Will does a lot of where he has prints for sale at the conventions as well. So if we go and buy what we have at the conventions you'll have these prints up and it catches people eye. Like people walk past... you have a Harly Quinn or Batman. He'll have old horror like Universal Monsters like Frankenstein's Monster and Dracula. So those catch their eye and then we bring them into the book and it...I found that a lot of it was you could sort of pick the people would come up and they might have been dressed up like a horror character or {have} a horror t-shirt on or things like that. You can sell them on the book but it was also... I found... we made a joke that we were.... The last convention we did, we had our tables set up and on either side of it were these just massive tables full of anime stuff. We made a joke that we'd corner the dad market because dad would be there with their (you know) their teenage daughters and they'd be sitting at the anime stuff and the dads would come over and look at our stand. I reckon one out of every two dads that came over bought the book because it was... it hits that old school aesthetic (you know). It's something a bit different and so I think you know we like we said (you know) yeah we hit the dad market.

Tara: yeah it's definitely not for teenage girls, for example, I don't think, not to be too stereotypical.

Andrew: I would agree. I think that the first story has a cat being run over by a lawnmower. I have had people open up the book get to that page and go no this is not for me. But we had teenage girls come up and the last convention we did we had a girl come up who'd bought it the year before and wanted to tell us how much she loved the book and to hurry up and make another one.

Tara: That's so amazing

Andrew: yeah so it's sort of I mean I can totally see it I would think that you know I my daughters haven't seen it. They are ten and seven and I wouldn't show it to them until they're older.

< Birds chirping in the background >

Tara: sorry I interrupted you, keep going.

Andrew: yeah it's just one of those things where I think the main target is just people who love horror and I grew up loving horror as a kid or everyone {every comic} I got in my early teens {was horror}. This (cul-de-sac) is something that I would have loved to have read. So that's what I look at. I look at (you know) being a horror fan, what would I have liked to have read? That's where I sort of head to my stories.

Tara: yeah and so one thing that when you were talking I was interested in when you go to these conventions, for example, where are these conventions, in Melbourne or only the ones in Melbourne.

Andrew: I live in just out about 20 minutes outside of Melbourne City. Will comes from country New South Wales but just near the border of Victoria New South Wales ...yeah and so he's come down for a few here and we mostly we've done just the pop culture conventions they have here. So sort of like comic conventions but in Australia, they're fewer comics and more let's get people from arrow and Twilight and things like that down.

Tara: So when you're at these conventions do you feel like you have to be a good salesman to sell your comic or does the visual imagery really sell it like you were saying before?

Andrew: it's a bit of both I think. Will always tells me off because I talk up his art more than the writing he always says to me no no you did not but the book sells it that's the thing

Tara: yeah I think also artists are very they can be a little bit they don't like to sell up their work sometimes so you're doing a good job.

Andrew: I think yeah and one of the things that always gets people to the table is Will will draw at the table as well. So he'll sit there and sketch away on stuff and (you know) he usually sells.... commissions off things like that so they'll Commission him to draw a picture for them. It seems... it feels weird trying to talk up something. Like I'm proud of the book and I love it but it just it's weird trying to sell it if that makes sense. It's trying to say you know trying to convince someone to buy the book... when it's... I find that very hard. Yeah but I see how the creators who have no problem with it. So I just (you know) it's one of those things I have to work towards.

Tara: I think it's good. I guess it's just experience. People who've worked on it for a long time or have done the same thing for a long time, they realise if you want to sell it you've got to tell people how good it is.

Andrew: exactly yeah

Tara: but it is very good the comic is amazing. I've read it and not every story, but I've seen it and just the artwork is incredible. It really... you were saying just before that Will comes from New South Wales and it really for me... it struck up a lot of that imagery of (you know) the living in the country sort of imagery. So you can really see his (you know) what he is inspired by and the stories are just... actually they were shocking sometimes. I was very shocked ... like oh my god can't believe that happened. But I'm not somebody that would read this genre. So for me to really engage in the book and read it and think oh that's actually really clever. I really like that and it also made me realise it's kind of okay to read horror cause it's not real. So it's like 'it's all good'... it's kind of... It's a ticket to be imaginative and creative so it's very cool.

Andrew: one of the things I love about comics as well is that you have no budget in that you can do whatever you want. You can have massive space battles, you can ... blow-up worlds and things like that. It's not a movie where they're saying "yes well you can do this but it's going to cost a hundred million dollars."

Tara: yeah it's gonna take you two years if do that.

Andrew: exactly if there's no budget. It's also the thing I love about horror. I heard someone say this on something I was listening to. Even bad horror, there's still something good in it but there still... you'll be watching a horror movie and the story might be bad but there might be {something} fun you know and an interesting something that happens in it. Whereas (you know) if comedy doesn't work, it's not funny, or if a drama doesn't work it's not dramatic.

Tara: so can you tell people how you can buy your comic where are you selling it

Andrew: So the easiest way to get it is digitally on from a website called ComiXology. It's on sale on there for 3 dollars 99 I think it's American yeah. So that's digital so you can read it on iPads and things like that or desktops. We do have print copies for sale on Etsy but the... if it's outside of Australia the shipping is insanely overpriced.

Tara: okay so it's better to buy it as a digital.

Andrew: yeah or you know the other way we do it sometimes is if a group of people want to order we'll bulk send. So the thing I would say... We did it for some friends in America when the book first came out and I got Paul to pay the price of the book plus a little bit extra for the shipping. Then I shipped it all in one go to one person and now they're seeing each other at conventions.

Tara: We will put a link to how to get it into the show description notes so people can see if they can find it. I was going to ask do you have something like a Patreon or something so that people can support your work for the possibility of making another one?

Andrew: we've actually... we've started on the sequel to it. We're setting... the sequel's gonna be set it's also called cul-de-sac but it's gonna be set in a drive-in this time. Tara: Ah cool Andrew: we thought we'd stick with the cul-de-sac title because then people will remember. But this one, yeah we're gonna (going to) set this one in a drive-in and then we had ideas for a third one which might be like in an old apartment block or something like that. But we're gonna move probably move down the decades as well.

Tara: so like the 1960s? Andrew: oh yeah maybe move along and then eventually we'll go into the future if we keep going with it. Tara: oh wow that's very cool.

Andrew: I think we could do it until we ran out of stories I mean yeah and especially moving decades and changing the location. It just opens it up again to different things and (you know) we could go for a while and (you know) we'd love to because I'm very proud of the first one. I want people to (you know) read our stories and it's just nice hearing people say nice things about the book.

Tara: Yeah and I mean it's amazing to be able to collaborate with somebody as well. Even though he doesn't live near you, you're 'collaborating and you've got now you've got that collaborative piece that you've worked on together forever. Andrew: yeah exactly and you know you think that 20-25 years ago this would be very very hard to do you know. We'd be either calling long-distance and he wouldn't be able to send me (you know) just from his phone little pictures of what he's drawing he'd have to post it to me or something like that.

Tara: yeah it would just take way too long.

Andrew: yeah so we are blessed with the technology in that regard because as much as social media can be a nightmare it's also, it works for stuff like this. Because (you know) I have friends in the comic industry who might work with somebody (you know) an Australian writer working with an artist in Brazil or (you know) something like that. So it's the technology that has helped the collaborative feeling of comics work so much better.

Tara: yeah it's so amazing you can do anything from anywhere. It's really cool. I actually feel like I would love to talk to Will now. I would like to get his perspective on the making of the comic because (yeah you're like) it's just I think because I didn't... it's not something I would normally pick up to read so I was very pleasantly surprised, so thank you.

Andrew: Nah, thank you

Tara: Before we go can you tell me something can you tell me a little bit about what you know about comics in France?

Andrew: so I grew up I read a lot of comics but I when we had a school library they didn't have superhero comics things like that but I read things like Asterix, Tintin which I think is from Belgium but stuff like that. But as I got older and (you know) the last sort of ten years the one I know the most is an artist-writer called Jacques Tardi who writes some really interesting black and white crime noir sort of comics. His stuff is amazing it's but it's very... a little bit over the top in the violence and there's sometimes.. some adult scenes in them. Not overly graphic but just.. you know just to be letting people not let them yeah pick it up for the wrong person and get in trouble. So just ...you know... the warning. But his stuff is beautiful. It's very minimally speaking with the lines but then he does some beautiful cityscapes and things like that so it's really worth a read.

Tara: thank you very much for the interview today I had a great time.

Andrew: it was really good it's, been good.

Thank you, Andrew, for the interview today I certainly learned a lot about the collaborative process putting together a comic between an author and an artist. I really enjoyed listening to somebody speak who is so passionate about comics as well as horror comics also and the horror anthology. So I highly recommend you go and you look at the links that I have in today's show notes. Go and see what Andrew and Will have put together, and buy a copy (of the comic). It's not very expensive. So next week you'll hear me talk to Will Pleydon who is the artist in this comic called cul-de-sac and you'll hear from him about the perspective of putting together their artwork and all the different pieces that he put together and that process that he had with Andrew and it's very interesting to hear the two different perspectives between both of them. So I look forward to sharing that episode with you soon and I look forward to speaking to you. Make sure if you haven't already started following us on Instagram you come and find us on Instagram. I'll put the links in the show description. Until then guys have a good week have a good evening whatever it is you're doing. Enjoy what you're doing and I'll speak to you soon.

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